Posted on Mar 6, 2014
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Leaders,
I conducted a barracks inspection today. One of my Soldiers, not white, had a modified rebel flag hanging in his room. On it was an eagle and written "these colors don't run".
While common sense to some says this probably shouldn't be there, is there anything that specifically says yes or no. AR 600-15, para 2-4 says a commander can have certain flags and etc removed to maintain good order and discipline.
Who or what determines that this is a violation. What may be offensive to some may not be to others, religion, heritage, etc. Your thoughts?
I conducted a barracks inspection today. One of my Soldiers, not white, had a modified rebel flag hanging in his room. On it was an eagle and written "these colors don't run".
While common sense to some says this probably shouldn't be there, is there anything that specifically says yes or no. AR 600-15, para 2-4 says a commander can have certain flags and etc removed to maintain good order and discipline.
Who or what determines that this is a violation. What may be offensive to some may not be to others, religion, heritage, etc. Your thoughts?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 2391
I have a "Rebel" flag tattooed upon my right shoulder. I know the history and meaning of my flag. Although history was written by the victor, the South has a strong and proud history. If someone has an issue with a symbol that is a strong part of our cultural and military history they should crack open a book.
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SGT (Join to see)
Being a proud Texan, I understand the lie that was taught to us in school, about the "noble cause"... the reality is, what was the "noble cause"? It was about the states right to determine the question of slavery. Nothing more, nothing less... I remember in history class at school, the history teacher spoke to length about the justness of defending "the institution". Well, I may have been born at night... I, most certainly was not born last night... I thought that was the lamest excuse for poor behavior. Mr. Smith, I do challenge you to reread them books. There is no way you can justify celebrating treason. Can't just defending slavery to me either. I recommend you rethink a few things. Just some food for thought.
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MAJ Jay Callaham
SPC Christopher Smith - Question - did you have Confederate ancestors? There were quite literally thousands of men of color who served in the Confederate armies for various reasons. Over 1,000 black veterans filed for Confederate Pensions in Mississippi in the 1920s. That doesn't count those who didn't survive the war, had moved away, died in the interim, didn't even know that they could do so, etc - - and that's just from ONE state. That flag belongs to them as much as it does to any other Confederate veterans.
Granted, slavery was a major reason for the war, and can logically be argued to have been THE biggest reason, but it's intellectually dishonest to try to claim it as the ONLY reason. I find it hard to believe that 9 out of 10 Confederate soldiers, who owned no slaves, took up arms just to benefit the wealthier folks who did.
Granted, slavery was a major reason for the war, and can logically be argued to have been THE biggest reason, but it's intellectually dishonest to try to claim it as the ONLY reason. I find it hard to believe that 9 out of 10 Confederate soldiers, who owned no slaves, took up arms just to benefit the wealthier folks who did.
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MAJ Jay Callaham
1SG Cj Grisham - Here's a photo of a 1916 Confederate Veterans Reunion. Note that there are quite a few men of color in there side-by-side with their comrades.
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Just a few thoughts. First of all, Sgt Newman is correct, and SSG Woods makes the salient point that the American flag has some stains of the same color on it as well.
Secondly, what should be done if a soldier of Japanese descent displayed a Japanese flag in their room. After all we fought a war with the (then) racist Japanese as well. I can't tell you how many times I have seen Puerto Rican flags hanging in barracks rooms as well. Where should the line be drawn? How do the French feel about a Cinco de Mayo celebration when it celebrates the defeat of their forces?
The point is, the things that can potentially offend someone are legion. It is important to note that inanimate objects are not, of, and in, themselves "offensive". To be offensive, someone has to CHOOSE to be offended.
I understand I'm not citing any regulations so I'm not answering the original question, and I DO believe that the line has to be drawn.... I would draw that line closer to the Nazi flag than to the flag known as the Stars and Bars, or which Sgt Newman accurately pointed out, is known as the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia.
Secondly, what should be done if a soldier of Japanese descent displayed a Japanese flag in their room. After all we fought a war with the (then) racist Japanese as well. I can't tell you how many times I have seen Puerto Rican flags hanging in barracks rooms as well. Where should the line be drawn? How do the French feel about a Cinco de Mayo celebration when it celebrates the defeat of their forces?
The point is, the things that can potentially offend someone are legion. It is important to note that inanimate objects are not, of, and in, themselves "offensive". To be offensive, someone has to CHOOSE to be offended.
I understand I'm not citing any regulations so I'm not answering the original question, and I DO believe that the line has to be drawn.... I would draw that line closer to the Nazi flag than to the flag known as the Stars and Bars, or which Sgt Newman accurately pointed out, is known as the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia.
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PO2 Christopher Foss
SFC (Join to see) - The counterpoint is the phrase "in public". The thread is about a personal room in the barracks, which, by definition, is Not public by which I mean people cannot just walk into it at whim.
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SMSgt Kevin Townsend
What about a sign or flag saying, "I am a proud southerner." or "I wish that General Lee had won.". My point is, we live in a country with many different and diverging interests, beliefs, and customs. I cannot speak to Army regulations but I can say that we must quit trying to divide ourselves into little tiny pieces or we will not have the unity to win wars.
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The Confederate flag offends some because of what it represents. Ok that's fair.
Let's not forget the reprehensible and atrocious things that happened in this country under the USA flag (child labor, Japanese concentration camps, segregation).
I'm just pointing out there is a much larger picture here.
Let's not forget the reprehensible and atrocious things that happened in this country under the USA flag (child labor, Japanese concentration camps, segregation).
I'm just pointing out there is a much larger picture here.
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COL Victor Hagan
None of those things amounted to the horors of 400 years of chattel slavery. And segregation was a continuation of the disenfranchisement of Africans and their descendants.
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
MSG Chris Clanton - Stars and bars was the National Flag of the CSA. The battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia was a red square with a blue St. Andrew's Cross and 13 white stars:
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PO3 Thomas Lawrence
I am thinking that I have read somewhere that there was a very high percentage of soldiers that fought for the Confederacy that did not own slaves. I had my 2 great great grandfathers fight for the 41st Tennessee Infantry CSA. I don't consider myself a rebel and have no affinity for the Battle flag of the Confederacy. Just hang a Sterling Price flag, I bet 99% of the people would not identify it.
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MAJ Jay Callaham
COL Victor Hagan - This flag, and its later variants up through 1865, flew over a slave nation far longer than did the Confederate flag variants.
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