Posted on Aug 17, 2015
This is why standards should not be lowered in order to get anybody into SF's. Do you know Lt. Kara Hultgreen's story?
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This is NOT a thread to demonstrate why women shouldn't be in combat. It's a thread to demonstrate why standards shouldn't be lowered to get them (or anyone) there. Please be civil.
In the early 90's, the White house and Congress were fairly desperate to rid themselves of the stink of Tail Hook, and so instigated a program to allow women to become combat pilots in the Navy. Lt. Hultgreen was the first of these. During her training, she received several 'down' marks, any of which would have sent a male packing. Yet she continued to advance through her training. It cost her her life.
"Documents obtained by Elaine Donnelly, director of CMR (Center for Military Readiness), shows that Lt. Hultgreen not only had subpar performance on several phases of her training but had four "downs" (major errors), just one or two of which are sufficient to justify the dismissal of a trainee. The White House and Congress' political pressure to get more women in combat is the direct cause of Lt. Hultgreen's death. But the story doesn't end there. A second female F-14A pilot, identified by Elaine Donnelly only as Pilot B, has been allowed to continue training despite marginal scores and seven "downs", the last of which was not recorded so she could pass the final stages of training." -- "Costly Affirmative Action" -- Walter E Williams.
In the approach that killed her, she made five identified errors, causing a stall that had, up until that time, never been caused in such a manner in the F-14. She died for political correctness.
I am sure that Lt. Hultgreen was a fine person. She should have never been in that cockpit. Her RIO nearly died as a result. Her death lies squarely at the feet of the White House, Congress, and the Naval leadership that allowed this to happen.
Soon after her death, policy was changed that required females to meet the same standards. And as you know, today, there are plenty of excellent female fighter pilots who SHOULD be where they are.
Because they met the bar.
No more. No less.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara_Hultgreen
In the early 90's, the White house and Congress were fairly desperate to rid themselves of the stink of Tail Hook, and so instigated a program to allow women to become combat pilots in the Navy. Lt. Hultgreen was the first of these. During her training, she received several 'down' marks, any of which would have sent a male packing. Yet she continued to advance through her training. It cost her her life.
"Documents obtained by Elaine Donnelly, director of CMR (Center for Military Readiness), shows that Lt. Hultgreen not only had subpar performance on several phases of her training but had four "downs" (major errors), just one or two of which are sufficient to justify the dismissal of a trainee. The White House and Congress' political pressure to get more women in combat is the direct cause of Lt. Hultgreen's death. But the story doesn't end there. A second female F-14A pilot, identified by Elaine Donnelly only as Pilot B, has been allowed to continue training despite marginal scores and seven "downs", the last of which was not recorded so she could pass the final stages of training." -- "Costly Affirmative Action" -- Walter E Williams.
In the approach that killed her, she made five identified errors, causing a stall that had, up until that time, never been caused in such a manner in the F-14. She died for political correctness.
I am sure that Lt. Hultgreen was a fine person. She should have never been in that cockpit. Her RIO nearly died as a result. Her death lies squarely at the feet of the White House, Congress, and the Naval leadership that allowed this to happen.
Soon after her death, policy was changed that required females to meet the same standards. And as you know, today, there are plenty of excellent female fighter pilots who SHOULD be where they are.
Because they met the bar.
No more. No less.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara_Hultgreen
Military History
Political Correctness
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 53
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SN Greg Wright,
We can discuss lowering standards, but I think the majority has spoken and agrees it is detrimental in numerous ways.
What I feel is the true breakdown of the system here is allowing political pressure to dictate to our military leaders the "how" and the "when" that training is changed to facilitate the new policies. For example, LT Hultgreen was the victim of our leadership trying to produce female pilots immediately to satiate political pressures, failure was not an option. Care needs to be taken to ensure that all meet the same standard, and if the revisions to the standards need to be made then the time and care is given to do it properly. At the end of the day each of us has a role to fill, and if we cannot do it properly we need to find a role we can or find the door.
We can discuss lowering standards, but I think the majority has spoken and agrees it is detrimental in numerous ways.
What I feel is the true breakdown of the system here is allowing political pressure to dictate to our military leaders the "how" and the "when" that training is changed to facilitate the new policies. For example, LT Hultgreen was the victim of our leadership trying to produce female pilots immediately to satiate political pressures, failure was not an option. Care needs to be taken to ensure that all meet the same standard, and if the revisions to the standards need to be made then the time and care is given to do it properly. At the end of the day each of us has a role to fill, and if we cannot do it properly we need to find a role we can or find the door.
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The standards should not change. Also the political correctness about and spotlight on any minority or special group needs to stop, it tends to removes credit from where credit is due, on those who achieve or exceed the standards. Case in point, who is getting all the media attention? It is not the Ranger who graduated at the top of the class. It is not the Ranger who helped all the other candidates in his or her group graduate. I get it, a woman graduating Ranger school is news, OK, put it in the news, but then lets recognize those who exceeded the standard and lead the way. I don't know their names, but I applaud those Rangers who graduated at the top of there class and those Rangers who helped others graduate from Ranger school.
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SN Greg Wright
I was actually sitting at the bar of the base club at Naval Submarine Base San Diego/Point Loma when LT Hultgreen's wrecked F14 was being towed in on a barge.
While I am not a pilot and know nothing about it other than what I saw in my 5 years on the USS Nimitz, all I will say is it is tragic that a person had to lose their life because of political correctness.
I was actually sitting at the bar of the base club at Naval Submarine Base San Diego/Point Loma when LT Hultgreen's wrecked F14 was being towed in on a barge.
While I am not a pilot and know nothing about it other than what I saw in my 5 years on the USS Nimitz, all I will say is it is tragic that a person had to lose their life because of political correctness.
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A perfect example of why reduced standards should never be used. We don't need bodies in high profile positions so bad that we put bodies in the ground.
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SN Greg Wright Great article and well said. Thank you for sharing. LTJG James Jones Sir why the down vote? Please state your views as why it was down voted please.
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The standards are there for exactly the reason shared above. It's not just the trainee whose life and health are put in danger by sub-standard performance. We all have to be absolutely sure that the person next to us knows their job, but has your back 100% of the time. Personally, I never cared what color a person's skin was, their gender, sexual preference... none of that. What I DID care about was whether they knew what they were doing and whether or not they were going to endanger me by incompetence. Simple, but effective philosophy and I was never shy about reflecting both good and bad behavior on fit reps. If you didn't know what you were doing, I didn't want you anywhere near the people under my command. Their safety was in my hands and I had no use for anyone who couldn't hack it. Lowered standards mean higher risk for everyone and active duty is hazardous as is.
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Yes, I do know her story. Hers is a fitting example of wasting a perfectly good F-14 Tomcat on a politically correct experiment that ultimately proved why political correctness can be very deadly and very costly when mixed with the military. There have been others. There will be many more.
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I definitely agree. For all combat arms. Women should not be prohibited, but they should have to meet the same standards as their male counterparts. Standards are there for a reason. They set the minimum performance level for all, to ensure the safety of all, and enable mission success.
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I would suggest that this happens to some men also. Someone thinks they are "a good dude" and instead of doing the right thing and failing the "good dude" they pass them and off they go. Standards are in place for a reason and when ignored, we can lose many good people that may have been better in another position where their unique skills are a perfect fit.
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SN Greg Wright
Col Kyle Taylor I'm sure you're right, Colonel. Probably with a higher instance, just out of the sheer stats of it.
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CCMSgt (Join to see)
Col Kyle Taylor That is true, Sir, but usually they get stopped by that crusty flight instructor that says...sure he's a good dude, but he's gonna kill someone on the ground. I guess it all depends on the organization.
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This was a great read. I haven't heard about her. I also agree whole-heartedly. I don't have any idea why you would receive a down vote for telling or speaking the truth. I guess it doesn't matter if this person doesn't have a qualified person next to him or not. The Navy failed her. It is truth. Thank you for shedding light on a wonderful pilot. SN Greg Wright
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