Posted on Jan 15, 2015
RallyPoint Team
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Screen shot 2015 01 14 at 9.46.49 pm
Imagine you’re a door gunner in this Afghanistan MEDEVAC scenario. Watch the short video and then answer our question at the end.

Here is the video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mplWAClhAW8#t=14

//REAL SCENARIO BELOW //

A Marine Corporal (Cpl) has been shot. His squad is in the middle of a firefight in Marjah, Afghanistan. Your MEDEVAC unit was already on station, and now your Blackhawk is screaming in fast and low. You’re the Blackhawk door gunner (your helicopter is one of the escort birds) and desperately trying to assess the ground situation. The Marines are still taking fire, but you don’t know from where. You spot the green smoke grenade marker designating the landing zone. Your heart is racing. It’s go time.

Then you notice something very ominous…

Hiding along the tree line nearby are multiple MAMs (Military Aged Males) who may be hostiles. They may be the ones engaging the Marines. They may try to kill you. They look suspicious but you can’t get tell whether they have weapons. Although you know they may be totally innocent, you consider firing warning shots in their vicinity. You decide not to.

The MEDEVAC Blackhawk lands and they immediately start taking fire from 3 sides. Now answer the question below.

//

Question for the RallyPoint community: As the door gunner in one of the escort birds, would you have fired the warning shots anyway? Why or why not?
Posted in these groups: U s army screensaver.gif Rules of Engagement (ROE)
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Responses: 71
Cpl Tony Fields
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Yes
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SSG Jeff Hamilton
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I deployed to Afghanistan in 2009. they train we received at NTC was different from that of Iraq where you had to have positive ID on the shooter. We were trained to return suppressive fire in the direction it came from. I would have engaged the tree line and areas the fire was coming from.
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1SG Civil Affairs Specialist
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I'll set aside the clear issue with the notion of door gunners on MEDEVAC birds.
Afghans hanging out in the tree line are just that, and nothing more unless they display weapons or hostile behavior. When they do, light them up. When they don't, they are just the people who live there, undoubtedly curious about the military goings on.

When you shoot at the wrong time, a whole boatload of consequences ensue. I know. I have to go in afterwards to clean up the mess. A mistake, sometimes a correct shooting can set back progress for months. This is the burden we bear when we assume the moral high ground. It often makes our job more dangerous. By all means, if those muldoons display nefarious intentions, "kill them until they are dead" - my all time favorite order I've ever received.

I have had my rear end hanging in the breeze many times, trying to help people who didn't like us. Trying to put a good face on operations that were inherently disruptive to their daily lives. Trying to make amends for the loss of livestock, a child, or a home. This puts me and my Soldiers in a place where at least some of the residents have a good reason to be angry with me. But without equivocation, it is worth it. In order to win in this type of war, you have to get in deep with the population and show them that the road to prosperity and peace does not lie with narcotics and infighting and turning on each other.

This is hard, but this is our challenge.
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SGT Journeyman Plumber
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Very well said 1SG (Join to see).
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SPC David S.
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Chase bird is over watch. They are the ones who should engage foe forces.
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SGT Jim Z.
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The question was if you are the door gunner on the escort aircraft would you fire warning shots. No I would engage targets as they become visible and the threat is determined. The escort aircraft as others have said is normally a regular Blackhawk (non medavac) or an Apache.
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SPC Christopher Richar
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Inaccurate narrative and therefore should have never been posted
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SPC Wheeled Vehicle Mechanic
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I am not going to point out all that is wrong with this video. What I will point out is if we did not have ROE as they stand no the collateral damage would be a million times worse. I know of many instances where soldiers had to drive on past what later turned out to be an ambush but there are many times when it wasn't. Just because it looks wrong doesn't mean it is. The il only thing I disagree with and this is being a wrecker operator is soldier being restricted from using the available weapons because the threat isn't large enough. I say level a building if it has a threat in it. It's kill or be killed. I am not going to have my ass get shot because we can't clear the way.
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SP5 Sid Daugaard
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I would not have fired warning shots, It is of my belief that in combat, there is no time for warning shots. Directly engage for yourself, the injured, and the air and Medevac crew. This is no time to second guess your actions there will be plenty of time for that as you reflect for the rest of your life. I do question the commentators scenario, as standard medic birds do not have weapons. Air support is rendered by the medevac chase aircraft. Exceptions are Special or Black Ops, at least this was my experience, and times have changed since I served, and yes I was a gunner on a Blackhawk as well as an Mi-17 Hip. Some will understand.
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SSG Nick Tramontano
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Someone mentioned that medevacs don't have weapons. As for The Geneva Convention, we are NOT technically in a war and we are Not actually fighting an official army of a particular nation. While we do need to have ROE, Sometimes our guys get penalized and charged with crimes because of their actions. We're sent to combat and then we have people that aren't there trying to tell us what to do and how to do it. If you have a confirmed visual on the enemy , 'light em' up'....The situation proposed is tricky in this type of warfare we are in.
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SSgt Mark Bankus Jr.
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I would have fired the warning shots, and if they continued towards the HOT LZ then at that point I would have considered them hostile. It is rare that a non-combatant would want to run towards the fire fight and continue after a warning shot. What if they already had there weapons in place and were running from a different location? They are already aware that they are consider non-combatants if they are not carrying a weapon. We are fighting an enemy that lacks any honor and they are abusing our ROE's to their advantage.

If I was wrong, then I would face whatever punishment. However, let it be known that I took action to protect our forces and my intent was not malicious.
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