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I am in the Army Reserve and this past weekend my unit and I went to the range. While at the range, I was told that one of my AGR E5 NCOs was being very disrespectful and unprofessional towards other NCOs and Officers while he was a range safety. Afterwards, my SFC supply sergeant asked him if he cleaned his weapon and he stated that he was not going to clean his MFing weapon. The SFC brought this to my attention and I said I would handle it. Later on, when I saw him again, I has him put away some items he was carrying and instructed him to bring his weapon while we walked to a secluded area. I had my LT platoon leader come with me. While I was doing this and trying to talk to him, he continuously interrupted me and was not treating me like his senior. I put him at the position of attention then told him to get in the front leaning rest position and he said he wasn't going to effing do that. I said great, let's go see the CSM. The CSM sided with him and said I escalated things too quickly (he said this with my E5 right there). He then said that he hold his AGR Soldiers at a higher standard than just a regular reservist. My brain was boiling... Doesn't take any consideration to my prior active time, my deployment, my rank, my leadership history.
I understand I might have escalated quickly but don't demean me in front my my Soldiers. I was going to have him in the front leaning rest while I calmly talk to him. I just wanted him to be uncomfortable while I explain what professionalism is and what the NCO Creed stands for and that I won't tolerate one of my NCOs disrespecting other NCOs or Officers.
Was I wrong in what I was doing? Am I too old school for today's Army? How could I have handled things differently? Now he probably thinks he is untouchable...
Update: So that individual got promoted and is awaiting transfer. He and I talked about what happened and he apologized for how he reacted. I just left it at that. I understand where I went wrong and if something like that happens again, I will be more prepared with having paperwork ready to escalate.
To give a little more insight on my unit, we are essentially the command part of a larger unit which we oversee. Similar to an HQ or HHC. It's hospital unit and we're the hospital center. Those of you who've been in a hospital unit, you probably understand the unique dynamic. With that being said, my position is basically the 1SG but with a squad sized element. My next higher up is the CSM, which is why I went to him instead of a 1SG.
I understand I might have escalated quickly but don't demean me in front my my Soldiers. I was going to have him in the front leaning rest while I calmly talk to him. I just wanted him to be uncomfortable while I explain what professionalism is and what the NCO Creed stands for and that I won't tolerate one of my NCOs disrespecting other NCOs or Officers.
Was I wrong in what I was doing? Am I too old school for today's Army? How could I have handled things differently? Now he probably thinks he is untouchable...
Update: So that individual got promoted and is awaiting transfer. He and I talked about what happened and he apologized for how he reacted. I just left it at that. I understand where I went wrong and if something like that happens again, I will be more prepared with having paperwork ready to escalate.
To give a little more insight on my unit, we are essentially the command part of a larger unit which we oversee. Similar to an HQ or HHC. It's hospital unit and we're the hospital center. Those of you who've been in a hospital unit, you probably understand the unique dynamic. With that being said, my position is basically the 1SG but with a squad sized element. My next higher up is the CSM, which is why I went to him instead of a 1SG.
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Edited 2 y ago
Posted 3 y ago
Responses: 168
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In my opinion you need a new CSM. If I told one of my troops to clean their weapon and they refused. I would put it in the form of an order and if they refused I would remind them what an order was and the repercussions for disobeying were. If they still refused they would be on report forth with. What did the LT have to say regarding the incident?
If the CSM undermined my authority in front of my troops I would request mast to the CO.
If the CSM undermined my authority in front of my troops I would request mast to the CO.
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Document everything, council him again, and again,etc.. then go for a bar to reenlistment. He really sounds like a dirt bag.
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As a senior NCO I will not tolerate insubordination. This young NCO was clearly wrong and needed to be counseled on the error of his ways. I would also ask the witnesses to provide hand written statements on paper. Prepare a written counseling form with attachments and have it done by the end of battle asssembly weekend or duty. If he wants to act like a private that can be arranged also. If you have to do their job for them, then they are excess and can leave on the next set of orders. After counseling and cleaning his weapon.
CSM retired.
CSM retired.
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Just Wow! You I can see how you were going about this in a non-paper pen way and he was still being a jerk, one you should have brought this to the CSM. you go up the ladder PLT SGT, then the 1ST SGT. Now you need to make a paper and pen action, you can always make him do corrective training as long as you are present, take his time away from him. Now if he refuses to do that then you can bring it to the next level of ART. 15 take a stripe away. Remember you have the power of corrective training and remedial training. Corrective training is when you are talking about disrespect and professionalism. Remedial training is when you are talking about performance in his duties such as marksmanship training, cleaning his weapon. Take his time away!
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Am I too old school for today's Army?
Yes.
Wait.
Karma will come around and you will be able to court marshal him.
Yes.
Wait.
Karma will come around and you will be able to court marshal him.
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That so called csm is a blue falcon pos. He didn't want to be bothered with pprwrk. He didn't want his pristine record. He was only worried about himself at that point and contradicted himself by wanting the best but not really. He let that pos e5 do what he wanted and got away with the blatent disrespect.
Should have wrote him up.... corrective training didn't work cuz his boy the csm let him slide.
Does that csm even have deployment time and if he did was he a desk jokey fobbit? I was reserves once and they are nothing like active duty and they act it too.
Combat patch goes along way an gives u a diff mindset but ive seen many an officer or non com with no patches an a million years in. They always the ones to look out for an the csm sounds like that.
Not downing the folks that didn't get to or haven't yet gotten theirs but there are those that make excuses not too.
The so called e5 should be private e fuzzy. You didn't ober react you just expected for that sht bag cheese dcking low speed high drap solider to do his job like a proffesional and not sht al over the nco creed.
Get out of that cess pool asap... they don't lile active folksnfor some reason, jealousy or sippin haterade. Todays army is to til tok then kick your butt... its alll about the me generation. THIS GENERATION HAS THE I IN TEAM.
Get out of there and let them and the garbage csm run themselves to the ground....hooah!
Should have wrote him up.... corrective training didn't work cuz his boy the csm let him slide.
Does that csm even have deployment time and if he did was he a desk jokey fobbit? I was reserves once and they are nothing like active duty and they act it too.
Combat patch goes along way an gives u a diff mindset but ive seen many an officer or non com with no patches an a million years in. They always the ones to look out for an the csm sounds like that.
Not downing the folks that didn't get to or haven't yet gotten theirs but there are those that make excuses not too.
The so called e5 should be private e fuzzy. You didn't ober react you just expected for that sht bag cheese dcking low speed high drap solider to do his job like a proffesional and not sht al over the nco creed.
Get out of that cess pool asap... they don't lile active folksnfor some reason, jealousy or sippin haterade. Todays army is to til tok then kick your butt... its alll about the me generation. THIS GENERATION HAS THE I IN TEAM.
Get out of there and let them and the garbage csm run themselves to the ground....hooah!
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He should have ended up with an Article 15, the CSM should have backed you up. This never had been allowed in the Marine Corps.
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Did you consult with his AGR supervisor first? You have to yell as a range safety because you need to be heard while there's firing going on but I know you know that.
Given that you had to have your Lt present leads me to believe there were prior instances like this?
If your SFC supply sergeant accepted his weapon back into the arms room and allowed that speech that's another problem. Don't they make your Soldiers wait while an armorer inspects them?
He has a supervisor/rater he takes orders from all month until drill weekend.
If you thought you were going to tighten him up like a Soldier you PT with every morning that was a mistake.
He is an NCO junior to you or not. Why did he have to be uncomfortable while you explained professionalism? Doesn't seem very professional to me.
I would have spoke with his everyday supervisor, informed them of his behavior then brought him in and locked his heels while he explained what happened. If his supervisor didn't want to do anything I would get a statement from the Supply Sergeant and typed up a counseling statement requiring him to provide me with a 500-1000 word essay by next drill weekend on the AR600-20 and/or AR600-25. But if his supervisor(s) don't wanna correct young Sergeant Potty mouth I'd hand that to the 1SG for command attention.
I was on an AC/RC (Active to Reserve Component) assignment for 3yrs as a young E5 and it was a horrific experience coming from line units. I couldn't wait to get back to the active Army. PSG's dating their Soldiers and so much more. Everyone on a first name basis even Pv1's...
There's just too much information missing here. But if he thinks he's untouchable that's his mistake not yours. Document everything, if he doesn't follow orders write it down and try to have witnesses present when he displays himself like this. Don't back off but don't go out of your way to see him throw a tantrum. Have NCO meetings and give them all their instructions at the same time. If he needs development it'll be apparent for all his seniors in time. I'd ask to see his counseling packet. If he's your Soldiers only for a weekend a month you have every right to see his initial and quarterly counselings. And yes, seems like you have a Staff Sergeant Major.
Given that you had to have your Lt present leads me to believe there were prior instances like this?
If your SFC supply sergeant accepted his weapon back into the arms room and allowed that speech that's another problem. Don't they make your Soldiers wait while an armorer inspects them?
He has a supervisor/rater he takes orders from all month until drill weekend.
If you thought you were going to tighten him up like a Soldier you PT with every morning that was a mistake.
He is an NCO junior to you or not. Why did he have to be uncomfortable while you explained professionalism? Doesn't seem very professional to me.
I would have spoke with his everyday supervisor, informed them of his behavior then brought him in and locked his heels while he explained what happened. If his supervisor didn't want to do anything I would get a statement from the Supply Sergeant and typed up a counseling statement requiring him to provide me with a 500-1000 word essay by next drill weekend on the AR600-20 and/or AR600-25. But if his supervisor(s) don't wanna correct young Sergeant Potty mouth I'd hand that to the 1SG for command attention.
I was on an AC/RC (Active to Reserve Component) assignment for 3yrs as a young E5 and it was a horrific experience coming from line units. I couldn't wait to get back to the active Army. PSG's dating their Soldiers and so much more. Everyone on a first name basis even Pv1's...
There's just too much information missing here. But if he thinks he's untouchable that's his mistake not yours. Document everything, if he doesn't follow orders write it down and try to have witnesses present when he displays himself like this. Don't back off but don't go out of your way to see him throw a tantrum. Have NCO meetings and give them all their instructions at the same time. If he needs development it'll be apparent for all his seniors in time. I'd ask to see his counseling packet. If he's your Soldiers only for a weekend a month you have every right to see his initial and quarterly counselings. And yes, seems like you have a Staff Sergeant Major.
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What is the "front lean and rest"?
Is it kinda like the "front leaning rest"?
Can you purchase it at "clothing AND sales"?
Is it kinda like the "front leaning rest"?
Can you purchase it at "clothing AND sales"?
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