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I am in the Army Reserve and this past weekend my unit and I went to the range. While at the range, I was told that one of my AGR E5 NCOs was being very disrespectful and unprofessional towards other NCOs and Officers while he was a range safety. Afterwards, my SFC supply sergeant asked him if he cleaned his weapon and he stated that he was not going to clean his MFing weapon. The SFC brought this to my attention and I said I would handle it. Later on, when I saw him again, I has him put away some items he was carrying and instructed him to bring his weapon while we walked to a secluded area. I had my LT platoon leader come with me. While I was doing this and trying to talk to him, he continuously interrupted me and was not treating me like his senior. I put him at the position of attention then told him to get in the front leaning rest position and he said he wasn't going to effing do that. I said great, let's go see the CSM. The CSM sided with him and said I escalated things too quickly (he said this with my E5 right there). He then said that he hold his AGR Soldiers at a higher standard than just a regular reservist. My brain was boiling... Doesn't take any consideration to my prior active time, my deployment, my rank, my leadership history.
I understand I might have escalated quickly but don't demean me in front my my Soldiers. I was going to have him in the front leaning rest while I calmly talk to him. I just wanted him to be uncomfortable while I explain what professionalism is and what the NCO Creed stands for and that I won't tolerate one of my NCOs disrespecting other NCOs or Officers.
Was I wrong in what I was doing? Am I too old school for today's Army? How could I have handled things differently? Now he probably thinks he is untouchable...
Update: So that individual got promoted and is awaiting transfer. He and I talked about what happened and he apologized for how he reacted. I just left it at that. I understand where I went wrong and if something like that happens again, I will be more prepared with having paperwork ready to escalate.
To give a little more insight on my unit, we are essentially the command part of a larger unit which we oversee. Similar to an HQ or HHC. It's hospital unit and we're the hospital center. Those of you who've been in a hospital unit, you probably understand the unique dynamic. With that being said, my position is basically the 1SG but with a squad sized element. My next higher up is the CSM, which is why I went to him instead of a 1SG.
I understand I might have escalated quickly but don't demean me in front my my Soldiers. I was going to have him in the front leaning rest while I calmly talk to him. I just wanted him to be uncomfortable while I explain what professionalism is and what the NCO Creed stands for and that I won't tolerate one of my NCOs disrespecting other NCOs or Officers.
Was I wrong in what I was doing? Am I too old school for today's Army? How could I have handled things differently? Now he probably thinks he is untouchable...
Update: So that individual got promoted and is awaiting transfer. He and I talked about what happened and he apologized for how he reacted. I just left it at that. I understand where I went wrong and if something like that happens again, I will be more prepared with having paperwork ready to escalate.
To give a little more insight on my unit, we are essentially the command part of a larger unit which we oversee. Similar to an HQ or HHC. It's hospital unit and we're the hospital center. Those of you who've been in a hospital unit, you probably understand the unique dynamic. With that being said, my position is basically the 1SG but with a squad sized element. My next higher up is the CSM, which is why I went to him instead of a 1SG.
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Edited >1 y ago
Posted 3 y ago
Responses: 173
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Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Was you wrong, it depends on what your goal was. Letting him know he f(*& up and you were pissed, front leaning rest works well. Wanting to convey a message and get results, front leaning rest no so conductive to listening and comprehension. It sounds like the CSM is creating a problem that will eventually make it to being his problem. Karma.
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I mean while I don't think you were wrong addressing the situation, that should have been handled prior to going to your CSM. But I obviously wasn't there, nor do I know the solider personally. So you clearly had a reason for your choice of escalation.
"I just wanted him to be uncomfortable while I explain what professionalism is and what the NCO Creed stands for." This part I don't think would actually provide any reinforcement (just my opinion). This sort of reinforcement may make that soldier more difficult to deal with. I know that sounds silly as we're in the military and there should be an expectation of professionalism and listening to your seniors, unless you're given an unlawful order of course. If the guy you described is already acting foolish and not receptive of his senior NCO's then there is a bigger issue there.
I would not tolerate that kind of disrespect and neither should you. My suggestion is to keep a paper trail. As professionally as possible, councel him as needed. Outline what he did, why it is a problem, and what to improve on. I wish I had more to say but I've been fortunate to have some great soldiers. I know there are some soldiers who do not always make it easy. Maybe this soldier needs a bit more one on one mentoring to develop further professionally as an NCO. The AGR comment is absolutely absurd.
"I just wanted him to be uncomfortable while I explain what professionalism is and what the NCO Creed stands for." This part I don't think would actually provide any reinforcement (just my opinion). This sort of reinforcement may make that soldier more difficult to deal with. I know that sounds silly as we're in the military and there should be an expectation of professionalism and listening to your seniors, unless you're given an unlawful order of course. If the guy you described is already acting foolish and not receptive of his senior NCO's then there is a bigger issue there.
I would not tolerate that kind of disrespect and neither should you. My suggestion is to keep a paper trail. As professionally as possible, councel him as needed. Outline what he did, why it is a problem, and what to improve on. I wish I had more to say but I've been fortunate to have some great soldiers. I know there are some soldiers who do not always make it easy. Maybe this soldier needs a bit more one on one mentoring to develop further professionally as an NCO. The AGR comment is absolutely absurd.
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I believe you were not wrong in any way. Unfortunately today's service is not like the old days and glad I got out before went to heck in a hand basket.
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Wow! It's definitely changed since i was in. I don't think you did anything wrong! Respect was expected and demanded 25 years ago. I hate you were disrespected at all but especially in front of others. Good luck. And thank you for your continued service!
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I don't think you were wrong. I think your buck sergeant was f---ing wrong! As far as I can tell (outside looking in), you handled this the right way. I think CSM Eric B. said what needed to be said here, so I won't rehash it. WHAT I DO KNOW is that there would have been some serious wall-to-wall counseling back in the day!
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In my opinion you need a new CSM. If I told one of my troops to clean their weapon and they refused. I would put it in the form of an order and if they refused I would remind them what an order was and the repercussions for disobeying were. If they still refused they would be on report forth with. What did the LT have to say regarding the incident?
If the CSM undermined my authority in front of my troops I would request mast to the CO.
If the CSM undermined my authority in front of my troops I would request mast to the CO.
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Document everything, council him again, and again,etc.. then go for a bar to reenlistment. He really sounds like a dirt bag.
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As a senior NCO I will not tolerate insubordination. This young NCO was clearly wrong and needed to be counseled on the error of his ways. I would also ask the witnesses to provide hand written statements on paper. Prepare a written counseling form with attachments and have it done by the end of battle asssembly weekend or duty. If he wants to act like a private that can be arranged also. If you have to do their job for them, then they are excess and can leave on the next set of orders. After counseling and cleaning his weapon.
CSM retired.
CSM retired.
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Just Wow! You I can see how you were going about this in a non-paper pen way and he was still being a jerk, one you should have brought this to the CSM. you go up the ladder PLT SGT, then the 1ST SGT. Now you need to make a paper and pen action, you can always make him do corrective training as long as you are present, take his time away from him. Now if he refuses to do that then you can bring it to the next level of ART. 15 take a stripe away. Remember you have the power of corrective training and remedial training. Corrective training is when you are talking about disrespect and professionalism. Remedial training is when you are talking about performance in his duties such as marksmanship training, cleaning his weapon. Take his time away!
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Am I too old school for today's Army?
Yes.
Wait.
Karma will come around and you will be able to court marshal him.
Yes.
Wait.
Karma will come around and you will be able to court marshal him.
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