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I am in the Army Reserve and this past weekend my unit and I went to the range. While at the range, I was told that one of my AGR E5 NCOs was being very disrespectful and unprofessional towards other NCOs and Officers while he was a range safety. Afterwards, my SFC supply sergeant asked him if he cleaned his weapon and he stated that he was not going to clean his MFing weapon. The SFC brought this to my attention and I said I would handle it. Later on, when I saw him again, I has him put away some items he was carrying and instructed him to bring his weapon while we walked to a secluded area. I had my LT platoon leader come with me. While I was doing this and trying to talk to him, he continuously interrupted me and was not treating me like his senior. I put him at the position of attention then told him to get in the front leaning rest position and he said he wasn't going to effing do that. I said great, let's go see the CSM. The CSM sided with him and said I escalated things too quickly (he said this with my E5 right there). He then said that he hold his AGR Soldiers at a higher standard than just a regular reservist. My brain was boiling... Doesn't take any consideration to my prior active time, my deployment, my rank, my leadership history.
I understand I might have escalated quickly but don't demean me in front my my Soldiers. I was going to have him in the front leaning rest while I calmly talk to him. I just wanted him to be uncomfortable while I explain what professionalism is and what the NCO Creed stands for and that I won't tolerate one of my NCOs disrespecting other NCOs or Officers.
Was I wrong in what I was doing? Am I too old school for today's Army? How could I have handled things differently? Now he probably thinks he is untouchable...
Update: So that individual got promoted and is awaiting transfer. He and I talked about what happened and he apologized for how he reacted. I just left it at that. I understand where I went wrong and if something like that happens again, I will be more prepared with having paperwork ready to escalate.
To give a little more insight on my unit, we are essentially the command part of a larger unit which we oversee. Similar to an HQ or HHC. It's hospital unit and we're the hospital center. Those of you who've been in a hospital unit, you probably understand the unique dynamic. With that being said, my position is basically the 1SG but with a squad sized element. My next higher up is the CSM, which is why I went to him instead of a 1SG.
I understand I might have escalated quickly but don't demean me in front my my Soldiers. I was going to have him in the front leaning rest while I calmly talk to him. I just wanted him to be uncomfortable while I explain what professionalism is and what the NCO Creed stands for and that I won't tolerate one of my NCOs disrespecting other NCOs or Officers.
Was I wrong in what I was doing? Am I too old school for today's Army? How could I have handled things differently? Now he probably thinks he is untouchable...
Update: So that individual got promoted and is awaiting transfer. He and I talked about what happened and he apologized for how he reacted. I just left it at that. I understand where I went wrong and if something like that happens again, I will be more prepared with having paperwork ready to escalate.
To give a little more insight on my unit, we are essentially the command part of a larger unit which we oversee. Similar to an HQ or HHC. It's hospital unit and we're the hospital center. Those of you who've been in a hospital unit, you probably understand the unique dynamic. With that being said, my position is basically the 1SG but with a squad sized element. My next higher up is the CSM, which is why I went to him instead of a 1SG.
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Edited >1 y ago
Posted 3 y ago
Responses: 173
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That so called csm is a blue falcon pos. He didn't want to be bothered with pprwrk. He didn't want his pristine record. He was only worried about himself at that point and contradicted himself by wanting the best but not really. He let that pos e5 do what he wanted and got away with the blatent disrespect.
Should have wrote him up.... corrective training didn't work cuz his boy the csm let him slide.
Does that csm even have deployment time and if he did was he a desk jokey fobbit? I was reserves once and they are nothing like active duty and they act it too.
Combat patch goes along way an gives u a diff mindset but ive seen many an officer or non com with no patches an a million years in. They always the ones to look out for an the csm sounds like that.
Not downing the folks that didn't get to or haven't yet gotten theirs but there are those that make excuses not too.
The so called e5 should be private e fuzzy. You didn't ober react you just expected for that sht bag cheese dcking low speed high drap solider to do his job like a proffesional and not sht al over the nco creed.
Get out of that cess pool asap... they don't lile active folksnfor some reason, jealousy or sippin haterade. Todays army is to til tok then kick your butt... its alll about the me generation. THIS GENERATION HAS THE I IN TEAM.
Get out of there and let them and the garbage csm run themselves to the ground....hooah!
Should have wrote him up.... corrective training didn't work cuz his boy the csm let him slide.
Does that csm even have deployment time and if he did was he a desk jokey fobbit? I was reserves once and they are nothing like active duty and they act it too.
Combat patch goes along way an gives u a diff mindset but ive seen many an officer or non com with no patches an a million years in. They always the ones to look out for an the csm sounds like that.
Not downing the folks that didn't get to or haven't yet gotten theirs but there are those that make excuses not too.
The so called e5 should be private e fuzzy. You didn't ober react you just expected for that sht bag cheese dcking low speed high drap solider to do his job like a proffesional and not sht al over the nco creed.
Get out of that cess pool asap... they don't lile active folksnfor some reason, jealousy or sippin haterade. Todays army is to til tok then kick your butt... its alll about the me generation. THIS GENERATION HAS THE I IN TEAM.
Get out of there and let them and the garbage csm run themselves to the ground....hooah!
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He should have ended up with an Article 15, the CSM should have backed you up. This never had been allowed in the Marine Corps.
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Did you consult with his AGR supervisor first? You have to yell as a range safety because you need to be heard while there's firing going on but I know you know that.
Given that you had to have your Lt present leads me to believe there were prior instances like this?
If your SFC supply sergeant accepted his weapon back into the arms room and allowed that speech that's another problem. Don't they make your Soldiers wait while an armorer inspects them?
He has a supervisor/rater he takes orders from all month until drill weekend.
If you thought you were going to tighten him up like a Soldier you PT with every morning that was a mistake.
He is an NCO junior to you or not. Why did he have to be uncomfortable while you explained professionalism? Doesn't seem very professional to me.
I would have spoke with his everyday supervisor, informed them of his behavior then brought him in and locked his heels while he explained what happened. If his supervisor didn't want to do anything I would get a statement from the Supply Sergeant and typed up a counseling statement requiring him to provide me with a 500-1000 word essay by next drill weekend on the AR600-20 and/or AR600-25. But if his supervisor(s) don't wanna correct young Sergeant Potty mouth I'd hand that to the 1SG for command attention.
I was on an AC/RC (Active to Reserve Component) assignment for 3yrs as a young E5 and it was a horrific experience coming from line units. I couldn't wait to get back to the active Army. PSG's dating their Soldiers and so much more. Everyone on a first name basis even Pv1's...
There's just too much information missing here. But if he thinks he's untouchable that's his mistake not yours. Document everything, if he doesn't follow orders write it down and try to have witnesses present when he displays himself like this. Don't back off but don't go out of your way to see him throw a tantrum. Have NCO meetings and give them all their instructions at the same time. If he needs development it'll be apparent for all his seniors in time. I'd ask to see his counseling packet. If he's your Soldiers only for a weekend a month you have every right to see his initial and quarterly counselings. And yes, seems like you have a Staff Sergeant Major.
Given that you had to have your Lt present leads me to believe there were prior instances like this?
If your SFC supply sergeant accepted his weapon back into the arms room and allowed that speech that's another problem. Don't they make your Soldiers wait while an armorer inspects them?
He has a supervisor/rater he takes orders from all month until drill weekend.
If you thought you were going to tighten him up like a Soldier you PT with every morning that was a mistake.
He is an NCO junior to you or not. Why did he have to be uncomfortable while you explained professionalism? Doesn't seem very professional to me.
I would have spoke with his everyday supervisor, informed them of his behavior then brought him in and locked his heels while he explained what happened. If his supervisor didn't want to do anything I would get a statement from the Supply Sergeant and typed up a counseling statement requiring him to provide me with a 500-1000 word essay by next drill weekend on the AR600-20 and/or AR600-25. But if his supervisor(s) don't wanna correct young Sergeant Potty mouth I'd hand that to the 1SG for command attention.
I was on an AC/RC (Active to Reserve Component) assignment for 3yrs as a young E5 and it was a horrific experience coming from line units. I couldn't wait to get back to the active Army. PSG's dating their Soldiers and so much more. Everyone on a first name basis even Pv1's...
There's just too much information missing here. But if he thinks he's untouchable that's his mistake not yours. Document everything, if he doesn't follow orders write it down and try to have witnesses present when he displays himself like this. Don't back off but don't go out of your way to see him throw a tantrum. Have NCO meetings and give them all their instructions at the same time. If he needs development it'll be apparent for all his seniors in time. I'd ask to see his counseling packet. If he's your Soldiers only for a weekend a month you have every right to see his initial and quarterly counselings. And yes, seems like you have a Staff Sergeant Major.
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What is the "front lean and rest"?
Is it kinda like the "front leaning rest"?
Can you purchase it at "clothing AND sales"?
Is it kinda like the "front leaning rest"?
Can you purchase it at "clothing AND sales"?
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You did the right thing. CSM was wrong. Unfortunately the Reserves and Army in general have leadership issues where it's easier to sweep it under the rug instead of addressing the problem.
As a (reserve) E6 engineer platoon sergeant and NCOIC on a mission, I was under direct orders from the commander to enforce safety SOPs. While monitoring operations with the unit XO we observed an E5 grossly in safety violation. I stopped the NCO, who was verbally disrespectful, refused to stand at parade rest, and ultimately shoulder checked me and walked off despite a direct orders to stand fast. This occurred in front of the XO, and was reported to the commander and 1SG. Ultimately not only did nothing happen, but this E5 was given an AAM at end of mission.
Poor leadership like this causes damage to moral and operations by the message it sends to good NCOs trying to do the right thing and to the rank and file who watched it. Unfortunately it's not uncommon in my experience.
As a (reserve) E6 engineer platoon sergeant and NCOIC on a mission, I was under direct orders from the commander to enforce safety SOPs. While monitoring operations with the unit XO we observed an E5 grossly in safety violation. I stopped the NCO, who was verbally disrespectful, refused to stand at parade rest, and ultimately shoulder checked me and walked off despite a direct orders to stand fast. This occurred in front of the XO, and was reported to the commander and 1SG. Ultimately not only did nothing happen, but this E5 was given an AAM at end of mission.
Poor leadership like this causes damage to moral and operations by the message it sends to good NCOs trying to do the right thing and to the rank and file who watched it. Unfortunately it's not uncommon in my experience.
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Should have written up your meeting with him and LT as a counseling statement and asked for a Article 15. If your 1SG did not support you than off to see CSM and keep going up chain until someone did their job and backed you up. Can not let that behavior stand.
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First, I would have pulled him to the side and asked is something going on with him maybe personally that is causing him to act this way maybe he is having problems at home that he is felling helpless with and is using his rank to make him feel better. Second, you are and well within your right as a SSG to put the guy in parade rest so the conversation is one sided and if he doesn't follow the LT could at that point gave him a direct order to comply all of this insubordination would have given you more logs for the article 15 fire. But for that guy I would just write as many counseling statements for each event as I could and then push for the article 15 and pull the stripes off of his chest that will always hurt the most and after about the second or third article 15 I would request chapter for this piece of garbage e5 that doesn't deserve to be a leader or part of the Army.
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Off subject but One thing that bothers me, and this is specific to the Army is referring to Soldiers by there pay grade. This person is not an E-5, He is a Sergeant. I had to continously pound this into my Soldiers heads. You would never call a Captain O-3 or your 1SG E-8. However on the enlisted side in the Army this is constantly done for SGT, SSG and SFC very disrespectful.
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