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I am in the Army Reserve and this past weekend my unit and I went to the range. While at the range, I was told that one of my AGR E5 NCOs was being very disrespectful and unprofessional towards other NCOs and Officers while he was a range safety. Afterwards, my SFC supply sergeant asked him if he cleaned his weapon and he stated that he was not going to clean his MFing weapon. The SFC brought this to my attention and I said I would handle it. Later on, when I saw him again, I has him put away some items he was carrying and instructed him to bring his weapon while we walked to a secluded area. I had my LT platoon leader come with me. While I was doing this and trying to talk to him, he continuously interrupted me and was not treating me like his senior. I put him at the position of attention then told him to get in the front leaning rest position and he said he wasn't going to effing do that. I said great, let's go see the CSM. The CSM sided with him and said I escalated things too quickly (he said this with my E5 right there). He then said that he hold his AGR Soldiers at a higher standard than just a regular reservist. My brain was boiling... Doesn't take any consideration to my prior active time, my deployment, my rank, my leadership history.
I understand I might have escalated quickly but don't demean me in front my my Soldiers. I was going to have him in the front leaning rest while I calmly talk to him. I just wanted him to be uncomfortable while I explain what professionalism is and what the NCO Creed stands for and that I won't tolerate one of my NCOs disrespecting other NCOs or Officers.
Was I wrong in what I was doing? Am I too old school for today's Army? How could I have handled things differently? Now he probably thinks he is untouchable...
Update: So that individual got promoted and is awaiting transfer. He and I talked about what happened and he apologized for how he reacted. I just left it at that. I understand where I went wrong and if something like that happens again, I will be more prepared with having paperwork ready to escalate.
To give a little more insight on my unit, we are essentially the command part of a larger unit which we oversee. Similar to an HQ or HHC. It's hospital unit and we're the hospital center. Those of you who've been in a hospital unit, you probably understand the unique dynamic. With that being said, my position is basically the 1SG but with a squad sized element. My next higher up is the CSM, which is why I went to him instead of a 1SG.
I understand I might have escalated quickly but don't demean me in front my my Soldiers. I was going to have him in the front leaning rest while I calmly talk to him. I just wanted him to be uncomfortable while I explain what professionalism is and what the NCO Creed stands for and that I won't tolerate one of my NCOs disrespecting other NCOs or Officers.
Was I wrong in what I was doing? Am I too old school for today's Army? How could I have handled things differently? Now he probably thinks he is untouchable...
Update: So that individual got promoted and is awaiting transfer. He and I talked about what happened and he apologized for how he reacted. I just left it at that. I understand where I went wrong and if something like that happens again, I will be more prepared with having paperwork ready to escalate.
To give a little more insight on my unit, we are essentially the command part of a larger unit which we oversee. Similar to an HQ or HHC. It's hospital unit and we're the hospital center. Those of you who've been in a hospital unit, you probably understand the unique dynamic. With that being said, my position is basically the 1SG but with a squad sized element. My next higher up is the CSM, which is why I went to him instead of a 1SG.
Army Reserve Elements
NCOs
Leadership
Career Counselor
Career Advice
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 3 y ago
Responses: 172
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First let me make this clear. There is no reason for one NCO to use cuss words to an order given. Sounds like this NCO was a golden boy and thought he could do whatever he pleased. Next me being me would say that you could write him up but so could the PL. fact is if your PL does it and requests corrective action, it does not go in front of the CSM. It goes straight to the commander and I have never known any commander that enjoys having a soldier to tell him F no. Having been in this situation I learned that the best way to bring them in line is to first remind them of the difference between the chain of command and the chain of concern. How I being the first line supervisor can write him up and send it in whichever direction I want. Since the chain of command does not include the CSM and this may not go beyond the unit commander he could well receive and article 15, and or a letter of reprimand. Either will end an NCOs career however if he shuts his mouth and gets in the front leaning rest I will not be able to write him up because it’s is being handled verbally and nothing more can be done unless the behavior continues. Surprisingly this works most realize no matter how good they are with anyone that it is just not worth all the crap and seeing as nothing else can be done by me they listen. Later most of them thanked me for being so understanding. Lessons learned by a 25 year retired Sergeant. Yes Sergeant and that was because I got a thyroid problem. The army does not promote overweight soldiers and a medical condition kept them from using 600-9 from chattering me. So why do I tell you this? Though they may not promote you this does not keep them from putting you in higher positions of authority. So I had to learn, sometimes the hard way, how to deal with disrespectful soldiers and NCOs. Found an understanding hand works wonders and it is true that positive reinforcement is 3 times better than negative reinforcement.
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I’ve been out of the military for a bit so maybe am not in tune with today’s Army or military but my first reaction would have been to counsel that NCO and if he or she spoke to me disrespectful while am trying to counseled that individual ALLBETS are off am writing him or she up period especially when you have a Louie next to you nah that individual would have been written up and see you later end of story and for that person to get promoted OMG really !! In the Corps he would have been dealt with
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CSM was totally wrong in this situation. With the command structure as it is, you did right, CSM should have backed you up. He is still an E5, no matter AGR or not. Sounds to me like a counseling statement is correct in this situation. You did right, taking this out of the unit AO, as should have been done.
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Incidentally, I'm old school as well. This ordeal should have never happed the way it did. That soldier was totally out of line disrespecting his senior NCO. Stick to your way of schooling soldiers under your leadership. Also, at the same time be very mindful of all individual soldier's mind-process thinking. It seems like many individual's now-a-days are one step away from being loose cannons waiting to be ignited.
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I once wrote up an E3 for not making coffee as part of morning duty change over. It went to CPO, the LT , the XO and finally to captains mast. His refusal cost him E4 and dsm near E2 and brig time.
OBTW - when got out of the Navy he became a Priest. Go figure!
OBTW - when got out of the Navy he became a Priest. Go figure!
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I also was in am Army Reserve hospital Unit and after a deployment I as a MSG had a major disagreement about a situation with a AGR SFC who worked in the Motorpool. This Sgt's Platoon Leader was present and this SFC who was bigger than me closed his office door with his Lt present and attempted to intimidate me by coming very close to me and staring me down. I reported this to our CSM and told her I would like to proceed with am Article 15 and she pretty much didn't support me in this action. I found out later from a different officer that this SFC had been caught red handed a while before filling his POV with fuel at the POL pump and no action was ever taken against him. I'm usually not one to bring race into any situation but all three of these individuals I noted were of a different race than myself and I have to suspect that this may have had something to do with the way this situation and the other situation I noted were handled
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This seems to be someone who needs to be put in their place, this person doesn’t want to be a part of the military it’s time to cut the cord if you don’t this person may get someone killed because when you need this person he or she will not be there for you.
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In this day and age, the pen is mightier than the push up. Great for instilling basic discipline when entering service due to time constraints and such, but once pass the lay person’s entry level and the person is considered a career professional, a different behavioral correction strategy is warranted. What is written will outlast any push up. Future reviews of one’s records don’t mention any push ups, but an articulated report of the incident will paint a clearer picture of the person’s state of mind at the time of the counseling or disciplinary action. Example: GI Joe so and so, I am initiating a report due to a complaint and statements by witnesses of your behavior. Complete your investigation, confer with your immediate superior, advise the offender of the charge and findings, allow for the offender to provide a statement, and execute the appropriate discipline. Appropriate times requires appropriate actions.
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Whenever you're dealing with an insubordinate NCO, putting them in the front-leaning rest will not suffice and will only escalate matters. The only corrective action that works in these situations is having that insubordinate NCO sitting in front of you with you having a counseling form and an eyewitness present (preferably someone of equal rank or higher like the LT who has seen his actions). Also, instead of going to the CSM of your unit (who was an idiot, by the way), use your direct CoC which should have been your 1SG. The counseling statement is a record that can lead to an Article 15 for insubordination and be put in his permanent records, which will be seen at his next promotion board. These tools should or hopefully, recondition that NCO's attitude. Hope this works.
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