Posted on Apr 3, 2020
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(Update: 14 Jun 2020) - While this story remains in the news (https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/06/19/navy-wont-reinstate-crozier-fires-1-star-over-poor-decision-making.html), we are reminded of what is today!!!
On this Father's Day and Flag Day for 2020 it might serve all of us to think about all the fathers and mothers too who are serving away from home and on whom their fellow soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and coastguardsmen rely. While many have voiced opinions on many sides of this event, and its implications are not yet fully felt, the point is simply this quote:
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty (aka freedom)"
It does not matter who made the quote often attributed to a particular Founding Father, but with little tangible evidence to verify that attribution; rather, it is the meaning in the words that are much more important!!! In the world of politics, we are reminded, that the mastery of the gymnastic linguistics involved in the defense of an indefensible position is the tangled web woven by the venom of the spiders that need absolute power.
With > 22.5 views, >1.3 K likes and >370 comments as of this date this post has had a lot of play. I want to thank all those the posted. Have a great Father's day, Flag Day and think deeply about the event that will be soon upon us - the 4th of July. Our nation is difficult, but in that difficulty has always been hope. I continue to pray that our nation of men, of women, of black, of white, of so many others learns that our common humanity it more important than our, often contrived differences. We'd be wise to remember that:
ALL people have "...certain unalienable rights..." and "...that among thee are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..." None of which can ever be truly achieved when small minds are willing to act out of fear and ignorance to save only themselves and deny these "...unalienable rights..." to the least among us who are in our care!
Blessing to all....
-------------
(Update: 13 Apr 2020) - Thank you SGT (Join to see) for this "interesting update" regarding the Pentagon's "worries" over CAPT Crozier's actions (https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/pentagon-worries-capt-crozier-s-concern-for-his-sailors-may-be-contagious--3). Humm. So, a Pentagon spokesperson could have actually said. “...This makes us sitting here in the Pentagon look like out-of-touch asses....” Now that is interesting!?!?!?!?!
Oh, I love the phrase "Crozier-20" - funnyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!
But, in all seriousness, if you are going to train officers and senior enlisted leaders that taking care of the troops is the #1 priority when it comes to being resilient, mission focused and combat ready, you should expect - the truth.
But, it is the update (https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/rising-navy-coronavirus-cases-put-heightened-tempo-into-question?loc=similar_main&pos=0&type=qrc) from PO1 William "Chip" Nagel that makes the update from SGT (Join to see) not just funny from Duffelblog, but actually poignant. Humm!
I'd bet good money that the CO has this over his desk in his stateroom: http://www.worldfuturefund.org/Documents/maninarena.htm
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(Update: 09 Apr 2020) - Thank you SSG Robert Mark Odom for this intel - https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/roosevelt-sailor-with-covid-19-found-unresponsive-in-guam.
-------------------------------------------------
Dear RP Family,
By now, the world knows the CO, CAPTAIN B.E. Crozier, of the USS Theodore Rooselvet (CVN-71) has been relieved of command for a letter he wrote dated 30 March 2020 regarding Coronavirus.
CAPT Crozier's letter (https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Exclusive-Captain-of-aircraft-carrier-with-15167883.php) is interesting and reminds me of another CO I once gladly served, CAPT Howick. Capt Howick, I believe, would have taken the same action as Capt Crozier, based on my service with him during an evolution at REFTRA in GITMO just prior to our deploying as part of Desert Shield.
Capt Crozier, stated the obvious impact and outcomes of an uncontrolled disease state on an advanced ship of war. Is that not what a competent war fighter does? So the YES's are:
- Yes, our enemies now know (perhaps have always known) how rapidly they can degrade our at sea war fighting forces with a simple 'invisible bug';
- Yes, I am sure the DoD, especially the US Navy, did not want to reveal this as I am sure it scared the crap out of the CoC;
- Yes, the families of those sailors are scared, but I think those who are honest with themselves are glad their sailors or marines served with this Capt. as much as I was proud to serve a CO like USN Capt. Howick or USMC Col. Doyle in the 1980s.
Perhaps what Capt. Crozier was thinking about was what Sun Tzu was reported to have said: "So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak." His mighty warship was weakening and he knew it. The CoC was apparently not listening, so he took the only course of action that was seemly left to him in order to take care of "his crew - aka his shipmates" and "attempt to maintain mission readiness."
He knew the risk the letter entailed. While he has been relieved, I think he will be asked to retire; and, I am not sure he will be Courts-Marshaled for this "seeming insubordination" as such an act by DoD could be spun in the media, if they chose to, into greater questions that would expose the military's ability to protect our own in times of this kind of crisis. He did not commit a USA LT William Calley or a USN Chief Gallagher type event from their 'personal actions'. If anything, from his letter he has outlined courses of action that could become military wide, if not US Navy, medical doctrine going forward under similar future conditions and provide a better process for OPSEC under such conditions. Even when we get a handle on testing and treatment, there will be other "hidden COVID-19 type" threats. The question should be for the CoC, is how will we now keep our war fighters at sea safer and mission responsive, especially aboard one of the most powerful platforms in our arsenal?
I have been a carrier sailor and I am sure the CMO and Senior PMT along with the entire Medical Department on TR are busting ass. In closing, I remember the singular case of Legionnaires disease we got aboard the USS Coral Sea (CV-43) when to the Med in 1989. The young (20 yo) sailor died about 10 days after arrival on board after his leave. I was a new PMT then, it was interesting times.
Finally, my sister is a DoD Civlian in the ME and she tells me that troops are coughing all over in her particular indoor-based operations. This operation is not mission essential. Apparently, no PPE or social distancing is being accomplished when I last spoke with her 26 Mar (4 days before CAPT Crozier's letter.)
In any event, just sharing some thoughts from an old sea dawg!
Blessing always to the RP family,
Question: Did CAPTAIN Crozier ultimately show "genuine leadership" or "fool-heartiness" by the penning of this letter and transmitting it in the open?
BTW, if you want to understand how sailors and marines feel about those that lead them under difficult circumstances this video might tell you something - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpNT5KUYhTM.
On this Father's Day and Flag Day for 2020 it might serve all of us to think about all the fathers and mothers too who are serving away from home and on whom their fellow soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and coastguardsmen rely. While many have voiced opinions on many sides of this event, and its implications are not yet fully felt, the point is simply this quote:
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty (aka freedom)"
It does not matter who made the quote often attributed to a particular Founding Father, but with little tangible evidence to verify that attribution; rather, it is the meaning in the words that are much more important!!! In the world of politics, we are reminded, that the mastery of the gymnastic linguistics involved in the defense of an indefensible position is the tangled web woven by the venom of the spiders that need absolute power.
With > 22.5 views, >1.3 K likes and >370 comments as of this date this post has had a lot of play. I want to thank all those the posted. Have a great Father's day, Flag Day and think deeply about the event that will be soon upon us - the 4th of July. Our nation is difficult, but in that difficulty has always been hope. I continue to pray that our nation of men, of women, of black, of white, of so many others learns that our common humanity it more important than our, often contrived differences. We'd be wise to remember that:
ALL people have "...certain unalienable rights..." and "...that among thee are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..." None of which can ever be truly achieved when small minds are willing to act out of fear and ignorance to save only themselves and deny these "...unalienable rights..." to the least among us who are in our care!
Blessing to all....
-------------
(Update: 13 Apr 2020) - Thank you SGT (Join to see) for this "interesting update" regarding the Pentagon's "worries" over CAPT Crozier's actions (https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/pentagon-worries-capt-crozier-s-concern-for-his-sailors-may-be-contagious--3). Humm. So, a Pentagon spokesperson could have actually said. “...This makes us sitting here in the Pentagon look like out-of-touch asses....” Now that is interesting!?!?!?!?!
Oh, I love the phrase "Crozier-20" - funnyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!
But, in all seriousness, if you are going to train officers and senior enlisted leaders that taking care of the troops is the #1 priority when it comes to being resilient, mission focused and combat ready, you should expect - the truth.
But, it is the update (https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/rising-navy-coronavirus-cases-put-heightened-tempo-into-question?loc=similar_main&pos=0&type=qrc) from PO1 William "Chip" Nagel that makes the update from SGT (Join to see) not just funny from Duffelblog, but actually poignant. Humm!
I'd bet good money that the CO has this over his desk in his stateroom: http://www.worldfuturefund.org/Documents/maninarena.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------------
(Update: 09 Apr 2020) - Thank you SSG Robert Mark Odom for this intel - https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/roosevelt-sailor-with-covid-19-found-unresponsive-in-guam.
-------------------------------------------------
Dear RP Family,
By now, the world knows the CO, CAPTAIN B.E. Crozier, of the USS Theodore Rooselvet (CVN-71) has been relieved of command for a letter he wrote dated 30 March 2020 regarding Coronavirus.
CAPT Crozier's letter (https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Exclusive-Captain-of-aircraft-carrier-with-15167883.php) is interesting and reminds me of another CO I once gladly served, CAPT Howick. Capt Howick, I believe, would have taken the same action as Capt Crozier, based on my service with him during an evolution at REFTRA in GITMO just prior to our deploying as part of Desert Shield.
Capt Crozier, stated the obvious impact and outcomes of an uncontrolled disease state on an advanced ship of war. Is that not what a competent war fighter does? So the YES's are:
- Yes, our enemies now know (perhaps have always known) how rapidly they can degrade our at sea war fighting forces with a simple 'invisible bug';
- Yes, I am sure the DoD, especially the US Navy, did not want to reveal this as I am sure it scared the crap out of the CoC;
- Yes, the families of those sailors are scared, but I think those who are honest with themselves are glad their sailors or marines served with this Capt. as much as I was proud to serve a CO like USN Capt. Howick or USMC Col. Doyle in the 1980s.
Perhaps what Capt. Crozier was thinking about was what Sun Tzu was reported to have said: "So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak." His mighty warship was weakening and he knew it. The CoC was apparently not listening, so he took the only course of action that was seemly left to him in order to take care of "his crew - aka his shipmates" and "attempt to maintain mission readiness."
He knew the risk the letter entailed. While he has been relieved, I think he will be asked to retire; and, I am not sure he will be Courts-Marshaled for this "seeming insubordination" as such an act by DoD could be spun in the media, if they chose to, into greater questions that would expose the military's ability to protect our own in times of this kind of crisis. He did not commit a USA LT William Calley or a USN Chief Gallagher type event from their 'personal actions'. If anything, from his letter he has outlined courses of action that could become military wide, if not US Navy, medical doctrine going forward under similar future conditions and provide a better process for OPSEC under such conditions. Even when we get a handle on testing and treatment, there will be other "hidden COVID-19 type" threats. The question should be for the CoC, is how will we now keep our war fighters at sea safer and mission responsive, especially aboard one of the most powerful platforms in our arsenal?
I have been a carrier sailor and I am sure the CMO and Senior PMT along with the entire Medical Department on TR are busting ass. In closing, I remember the singular case of Legionnaires disease we got aboard the USS Coral Sea (CV-43) when to the Med in 1989. The young (20 yo) sailor died about 10 days after arrival on board after his leave. I was a new PMT then, it was interesting times.
Finally, my sister is a DoD Civlian in the ME and she tells me that troops are coughing all over in her particular indoor-based operations. This operation is not mission essential. Apparently, no PPE or social distancing is being accomplished when I last spoke with her 26 Mar (4 days before CAPT Crozier's letter.)
In any event, just sharing some thoughts from an old sea dawg!
Blessing always to the RP family,
Question: Did CAPTAIN Crozier ultimately show "genuine leadership" or "fool-heartiness" by the penning of this letter and transmitting it in the open?
BTW, if you want to understand how sailors and marines feel about those that lead them under difficult circumstances this video might tell you something - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpNT5KUYhTM.
CAPT
Mission
Integrity
Political Correctness
Medical
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 85
94
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0
CPO Nate S. Sometimes leaders have to do what they think is right and take that risk of losing their job by standing up for they think is right. There are regulations to be followed and OPSEC to be followed. I believe he could have accomplished the same thing by going through his direct Chain of Command, and then bypassing them using the Open Door Policy within his Chain of Command, if he wasn't satisified with the outcome or response. Just my opinion as a former Brigade Commander!
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SPC Chris Ison
Some conservative commentators seized on President Barack Obama's deep bow to Japan's Emperor Akihito over the weekend, accusing the U.S. commander in chief ...
Maj Wayne Crist - You have no fucking understanding of Japanese culture.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwqwC-k4dQk
The state department is cognizant of how a leader should greet another leader, and when you are in ROME you do as the ROMANS do.
When in doubt, salute.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwqwC-k4dQk
The state department is cognizant of how a leader should greet another leader, and when you are in ROME you do as the ROMANS do.
When in doubt, salute.
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Maj Wayne Crist
Ah married to an Asian and have spent a get deal of time living in Asia. Very Familiar with Japanese and Korean culture. Please curb your vulgar language it s not appreciated or appropriate. You are clearly out of your depth.
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SPC Chris Ison
Maj Wayne Crist - Ah did the men man hurt your feelings with bad words?
Man the fuck up.
Did you marry a Japanese National? Cause a Filipino is NOT the same culture.
So funny that bowing before the Japanese emperor is so distasteful; But NONE of what Trump has done ruffles your feathers? I guess it is okay to insult people as long as the "words" are not "colorful"?
No, I know it is because you are racist and misogynistic; Probably why you couldn't marry an American woman, she would be too strong for you to control.
Man the fuck up.
Did you marry a Japanese National? Cause a Filipino is NOT the same culture.
So funny that bowing before the Japanese emperor is so distasteful; But NONE of what Trump has done ruffles your feathers? I guess it is okay to insult people as long as the "words" are not "colorful"?
No, I know it is because you are racist and misogynistic; Probably why you couldn't marry an American woman, she would be too strong for you to control.
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Maj Wayne Crist
SPC Chris Ison - No I just find vulgar language distasteful. And what would give you the idea married a Filipino? I have lived in the far east and traveled it extensively. Every President we have had has done things that "ruffled my feathers". By your own comments you nothing about Asian women are in fact being very racist. So Chris take a hike.
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I think he knew he would get fired for the letter, but still sent the letter IOT get his Sailors the help they need. One sign of a good/great leader (IMHO) is the willingness to rock the boat and/or take those sabot rounds for your people. I am not going to fault him for doing what he felt was right. Especially for his people. Yea, could he have gone a different route? Probably. But that is hindsight. If his people get the help they need, then it's a WIN for the Captain....regardless of him getting fired.
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Sgt Leonard Lamb
If you refuse an order by a superior you better have a damn good reason. If you go out of the chain of command you better have a damn good reason. I believe he had a damn good reason.
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Sgt Neil Foster
SP6 Peter Kreutzfeldt - The disease ultimately ended up infecting more than 25% of the crew... The numbers would have been over 70% if he didn't take drastic action. What do you think would have happened then? How do you propose he should have dealt with it when CoC was dragging their feet as the infections increased exponentially? Do you realize that there were medical doctors aboard the ship that were most likely presenting a very grim picture of what would happen
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Sgt Neil Foster
SGM Robert Murray - You need to do a bit more research before making accusations..
Right from the beginning the Navy saud that there was NO INDICATION that CAPT Crozier never went public... One of the NAVY LEADERS WHO RECEIVED THE MESSAGE LEAKED IT TO THE PRESS.
While your statement that a carrier has support vessels is correct, you are completely ignoring the fact that quarantining hundreds of sick sailors aboard a ship is almost impossible.
You are implying that the Captain just 'decided on his own' to do what he did. You are completely ignoring the fact that an aircraft has MEDICAL DOCTORS aboard who who know one hell of a lot more than you about communicable diseases. and the danger they pose the ship's crew. Those MEDICAL DOCTORS were tracking the outbreak as it was spreading EXPONENTIALLY throughout the ship, and were advising the Captain on the status.
When the Captain first notified CoC there were 26 sailors infected. That number increased almost tenfold by the time the Captain's letter was leaked to the press. Ultimately more than 26% of the crew (1,273 sailors) was infected. That number would have been SIGNIFICANTLY higher had drastic action not been taken
The ship's medical officers knew that at the rate the virus was spreading the number of infected sailors would have completely overwhelmed the medical facilities aboard the ship.
You completely ignored the fact that a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier requires a large, trained crew to operate. The loss of a large percentage of crew members posed to the ship the fleet if there were not enough sailors to safely run the ship. Do you think they could just take an able bodied seaman from another ship and tell him or her to run the nuclear reactor because the regular crew is too sick to do so?
His Chain of Command was dragging their feet... and ended up looking pretty stupid for doing so
Right from the beginning the Navy saud that there was NO INDICATION that CAPT Crozier never went public... One of the NAVY LEADERS WHO RECEIVED THE MESSAGE LEAKED IT TO THE PRESS.
While your statement that a carrier has support vessels is correct, you are completely ignoring the fact that quarantining hundreds of sick sailors aboard a ship is almost impossible.
You are implying that the Captain just 'decided on his own' to do what he did. You are completely ignoring the fact that an aircraft has MEDICAL DOCTORS aboard who who know one hell of a lot more than you about communicable diseases. and the danger they pose the ship's crew. Those MEDICAL DOCTORS were tracking the outbreak as it was spreading EXPONENTIALLY throughout the ship, and were advising the Captain on the status.
When the Captain first notified CoC there were 26 sailors infected. That number increased almost tenfold by the time the Captain's letter was leaked to the press. Ultimately more than 26% of the crew (1,273 sailors) was infected. That number would have been SIGNIFICANTLY higher had drastic action not been taken
The ship's medical officers knew that at the rate the virus was spreading the number of infected sailors would have completely overwhelmed the medical facilities aboard the ship.
You completely ignored the fact that a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier requires a large, trained crew to operate. The loss of a large percentage of crew members posed to the ship the fleet if there were not enough sailors to safely run the ship. Do you think they could just take an able bodied seaman from another ship and tell him or her to run the nuclear reactor because the regular crew is too sick to do so?
His Chain of Command was dragging their feet... and ended up looking pretty stupid for doing so
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SGM Robert Murray
Sgt Neil Foster - Try again. You wrote a lot, but said very little. Shallow response. Do more research, please?
That investigation, released Friday, faulted Crozier for how he responded to the outbreak onboard his ship and led Gilday to believe Crozier’s initial firing was justified. He's toast.
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2020/06/19/capt-crozier-wont-be-reinstated-as-the-commander-of-the-carrier-theodore-roosevelt/
That investigation, released Friday, faulted Crozier for how he responded to the outbreak onboard his ship and led Gilday to believe Crozier’s initial firing was justified. He's toast.
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2020/06/19/capt-crozier-wont-be-reinstated-as-the-commander-of-the-carrier-theodore-roosevelt/
Capt. Crozier won’t be reinstated as the commander of the carrier Theodore Roosevelt
The decision came after a deeper probe into how Crozier handled a highly publicized COVID-19 outbreak on the ship.
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I'm still at the "Yes and No" stage.
Making the letter public was definitely foolhardy. This is a matter to be discussed and decided confidentially within the chain of command. However, it was not foolhardy if the chain of command was not responsive.
Taking the ship into port without authorization was definitely foolhardy. This action has most likely encouraged Chinese military adventurism in the region. However, it was not foolhardy if the chain of command was not responsive.
Ultimately, great authority comes with great responsibility. All military commanders must be prepared to face the consequences of their decisions. Sometimes those decisions are very hard, such as ordering subordinates to go in harms way. That is the business of the military. No, no one should be forced to take unnecessary risks, however, I do not have sufficient information to determine if remaining on station was necessary or unnecessary. To be fair, I am inclined to say it was a necessity and thus, the risk to the crew was a necessity. War is as much about maneuver as it is about shooting and China has been maneuvering for strategic advantage in that region, especially regarding freedom of navigation.
Making the letter public was definitely foolhardy. This is a matter to be discussed and decided confidentially within the chain of command. However, it was not foolhardy if the chain of command was not responsive.
Taking the ship into port without authorization was definitely foolhardy. This action has most likely encouraged Chinese military adventurism in the region. However, it was not foolhardy if the chain of command was not responsive.
Ultimately, great authority comes with great responsibility. All military commanders must be prepared to face the consequences of their decisions. Sometimes those decisions are very hard, such as ordering subordinates to go in harms way. That is the business of the military. No, no one should be forced to take unnecessary risks, however, I do not have sufficient information to determine if remaining on station was necessary or unnecessary. To be fair, I am inclined to say it was a necessity and thus, the risk to the crew was a necessity. War is as much about maneuver as it is about shooting and China has been maneuvering for strategic advantage in that region, especially regarding freedom of navigation.
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Maj Dale Smith
There are two sides to every coin. The Captain of the ship had to weigh saving his crew while at the same time exposing his non mission ready status. A time line of communications would be nice here. His superiors may not have been listening to him and his ship was not prepared for a disease that could not be fended off by the drugs on board. There is a reason that every military member deploys with a current inoculation battery. This situation went way beyond anything anyone had seen since 1918 and still does. In the long run, he probably did the right thing, however, he also told the Chinese just how affective they had been in disabling a major US asset.
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LCDR Mike Morrissey
MSgt Steve Sweeney - Goodness Master Sergeant, You REALLY don't get it? I guess you don't comprehend the meanings of "command at sea" and "strategic asset" and "operational readiness reporting". BTW the Navy Times publishes a "status" but it certainly isn't "THE STATUS" of every carrier.` As to classified information, you better bone up on the DOD classification standards. And yes, I did read the letter's contents.
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LCDR Mike Morrissey
MSgt Steve Sweeney - Well now DOD INST 5200.1, and 5200.45;
Executive order 12958 and 13526 1.2 and 1.4, UCMJ Art 92 (and possibly 90). Simply put-revelation of operational capability as described in para 1 and 2 of his communication neither of which were classified as required and was disseminated without restriction/protection and therefore also available to foreign entities.
Executive order 12958 and 13526 1.2 and 1.4, UCMJ Art 92 (and possibly 90). Simply put-revelation of operational capability as described in para 1 and 2 of his communication neither of which were classified as required and was disseminated without restriction/protection and therefore also available to foreign entities.
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