Posted on Jul 21, 2020
What are the aforementioned organizations involved in this forum doing to protect Veterans from the overuse and misuse of Disinfectants ?
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"French National Institute of Health and Medical Research (Inserm) looked at the incidence of the disease in more than 55,000 nurses in the US and identified a link between the use of bleach and other common disinfectants and a higher incidence of COPD. "
https://www.ioshmagazine.com/regular-use-disinfectants-linked-higher-risk-fatal-lung-disease?
"Disinfectants are not cleaners; they are pesticides designed to kill or inactivate microbes. Therefore, they are not products that should be used freely. Overuse of some disinfectant products can potentially create microbes that are resistant to particular disinfectants or that become “superbugs.”"
https://www.turi.org/Our_Work/Cleaning_Laboratory/Resources_and_Information/Disinfection/Guide_to_Safe_and_Effective_Cleaning_and_Disinfecting
"The report by Womens Voices for the Earth (WVE) -- titled Disinfectant Overkill: How Too Clean May Be Hazardous to Our Health -- cites more than 40 scientific studies that illustrate the health risks associated with chemicals found in kitchen cleaners, handy wipes, and other common cleaning products."
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2009/11/disinfectants.html?
https://www.ioshmagazine.com/regular-use-disinfectants-linked-higher-risk-fatal-lung-disease?
"Disinfectants are not cleaners; they are pesticides designed to kill or inactivate microbes. Therefore, they are not products that should be used freely. Overuse of some disinfectant products can potentially create microbes that are resistant to particular disinfectants or that become “superbugs.”"
https://www.turi.org/Our_Work/Cleaning_Laboratory/Resources_and_Information/Disinfection/Guide_to_Safe_and_Effective_Cleaning_and_Disinfecting
"The report by Womens Voices for the Earth (WVE) -- titled Disinfectant Overkill: How Too Clean May Be Hazardous to Our Health -- cites more than 40 scientific studies that illustrate the health risks associated with chemicals found in kitchen cleaners, handy wipes, and other common cleaning products."
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2009/11/disinfectants.html?
Health and Wellness
Environmental Services
Health
Posted 4 y ago
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Thank you Sherrie for this eye opening info, I know that it's dangerous to mix certain cleaning chemicals.
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I guess I do not see enough information to comment at length. While there are risks to the use of disinfectants, there are often far greater hazards that come about in the absence of disinfecting. If you are referring to VA hospitals and clinics, I would hope that they are following manufacturers guidance and that of their internal specialists. I would rather have sterile surfaces than hazardous ones. Non the less your concerns are obviously valid.
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I know it is not a popular perspective right now, but...
The government should require the producers of disinfectants to put appropriate labels on their products.
Then veterans should take responsibility for their own use or overuse of disinfectants.
When I was a kid, (like under 10) I knew enough to not breathe in the fumes from cleaning products, make sure the windows were open and to get a fan to exhaust the fumes out a window. I've about had it up to here with people and organizations trying to protect me. I'm not a child. Give me the appropriate information, then lead, follow, or get out of the way.
The government should require the producers of disinfectants to put appropriate labels on their products.
Then veterans should take responsibility for their own use or overuse of disinfectants.
When I was a kid, (like under 10) I knew enough to not breathe in the fumes from cleaning products, make sure the windows were open and to get a fan to exhaust the fumes out a window. I've about had it up to here with people and organizations trying to protect me. I'm not a child. Give me the appropriate information, then lead, follow, or get out of the way.
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PFC Sherrie Pace-Truitt
Even in our research lab chemicals do not come with proper labeling. You have to rely on the MSDS for that. Regulations will never catch up to the consumer as chemicals companies have too much interest in lobbying that keeps things silent. People put too much trust in what they can buy over the counter without regards to the cost to their health. Aerosols can lock up your lungs yet people blindly spray them and never look at a label. Not many in environmental services in hospitals and medical centers are even taught how to properly use cleaning chemicals. They blindly believe everyone knows how to clean. How many Janitors know about the chemicals they use? We have so many on the market know, with little to no regulation on toxicity or use. Disinfectants are considered pesticides and regulated under EPA for use but many are ill equipped to even know what to do if exposed. Research shows how they are adversely effecting our immune system. https://distox.net/
Health Effects of Bleach and Disinfectants
Toxic health effects of bleach and common disinfectants are summarized from medical journals. Topics include bleach use, immune system damage, increased infections, asthma.
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Maj John Bell
PFC Sherrie Pace-Truitt - What constitutes proper labeling in your mind? If people don't read the labels whose fault is that? Perhaps we should have mandatory consumer training, and a quiz before we issue an ID that allows people to buy household cleaning products.
What do OSHA, the Consumer product safety commission and Environmental protection Agency do? What is your reference that these agencies have been muzzled by the producers of cleaning products?
In addition, with virtually any cleaning product, it doesn't take a whole lot of thought to know they aren't to be ingested, inhaled, or injected. When I was 10 I was expected to do my share of cleaning around the house. Like I said... I knew enough to not breathe in the fumes from cleaning products, make sure the windows were open and to get a fan to exhaust the fumes out a window.
If we eliminate disinfectants, sanitizers, and cleaners; will the net effect on consumer health be better or worse? If we returned to 19th Century sanitation methods, what then? The attached link provides some data on life expectancy from 1900-2000. I suspect that a great deal of that difference (but not all) comes from better sanitation practices/products.
Almost EVERY decision in life is a risks versus rewards decision.
What is your suggestion to resolve this issue.?
P.S. What does "lock up your lungs" mean?
What do OSHA, the Consumer product safety commission and Environmental protection Agency do? What is your reference that these agencies have been muzzled by the producers of cleaning products?
In addition, with virtually any cleaning product, it doesn't take a whole lot of thought to know they aren't to be ingested, inhaled, or injected. When I was 10 I was expected to do my share of cleaning around the house. Like I said... I knew enough to not breathe in the fumes from cleaning products, make sure the windows were open and to get a fan to exhaust the fumes out a window.
If we eliminate disinfectants, sanitizers, and cleaners; will the net effect on consumer health be better or worse? If we returned to 19th Century sanitation methods, what then? The attached link provides some data on life expectancy from 1900-2000. I suspect that a great deal of that difference (but not all) comes from better sanitation practices/products.
Almost EVERY decision in life is a risks versus rewards decision.
What is your suggestion to resolve this issue.?
P.S. What does "lock up your lungs" mean?
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PFC Sherrie Pace-Truitt
You are definitely right for folks not reading labels being their own fault. But when it comes to using these products the user may be exposing others with that blissful ignorance. I love that whole consumer training idea. We need PSA's like they do in other countries running on the tV.
Labeling is lacking on ingredient lists for many products. OSHA may be the only one adequately trying to protect employees health. The CPSC & EPA are not protecting consumers as many chemicals are put into products and into the market without proper safety testing. Many were grandfathered in with the Toxic Substances Control Act of 1976. No risk assessments done. I believe Sanitation can be achieved minus human exposure.
Starting in the mid-1800s, there was a steady drop in deaths from all infectious diseases, decreasing to relatively minor levels by the early 1900s. Since that time, many countries have undergone a transformation from disease cesspools to much safer, healthier habitats due to modern plumbing and proper sanitation practices. Since then we have went beyond these controls, with more and more unnecessary chemical soups that are adding disease burden. Our rates of cancer, endocrine disease and neurological diseases have increase substantially. When is enough enough?
I believe there needs to be more control on disinfectant use and that includes indoor use when people are not present, proper ventilation, and air quality measurements monitored. Im going to include cleaning chemicals and pesticides indoor too. No control, oversight, or proper use training exists for many in not just the average home but these large institutions.
Lock up your lungs is what I so lovingly call what happens when you breathe in aerosols and you cant breath. Getting a case of chemical pneumonitis or Pleurisy is not anything I would wish on anyone.
I wish people did think more about the risk/benefit ratio, but it's not something remotely done outside the lab or research environment. Im faulty on that one sometimes since leaving research.
Thanks for the convo.
Labeling is lacking on ingredient lists for many products. OSHA may be the only one adequately trying to protect employees health. The CPSC & EPA are not protecting consumers as many chemicals are put into products and into the market without proper safety testing. Many were grandfathered in with the Toxic Substances Control Act of 1976. No risk assessments done. I believe Sanitation can be achieved minus human exposure.
Starting in the mid-1800s, there was a steady drop in deaths from all infectious diseases, decreasing to relatively minor levels by the early 1900s. Since that time, many countries have undergone a transformation from disease cesspools to much safer, healthier habitats due to modern plumbing and proper sanitation practices. Since then we have went beyond these controls, with more and more unnecessary chemical soups that are adding disease burden. Our rates of cancer, endocrine disease and neurological diseases have increase substantially. When is enough enough?
I believe there needs to be more control on disinfectant use and that includes indoor use when people are not present, proper ventilation, and air quality measurements monitored. Im going to include cleaning chemicals and pesticides indoor too. No control, oversight, or proper use training exists for many in not just the average home but these large institutions.
Lock up your lungs is what I so lovingly call what happens when you breathe in aerosols and you cant breath. Getting a case of chemical pneumonitis or Pleurisy is not anything I would wish on anyone.
I wish people did think more about the risk/benefit ratio, but it's not something remotely done outside the lab or research environment. Im faulty on that one sometimes since leaving research.
Thanks for the convo.
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Maj John Bell
PFC Sherrie Pace-Truitt - My wife work's for an environmental Lab. (She's not a scientist, she is their HR and compliance officer). I've had many a discussion and disagreements with some of the scientists. I'm not saying they don't know their science. I'm saying they are weak on government structure, law and regulation. Additionally, they are hide bound to the scientific method and controlling variables. I believe in that BUT... trying to make scientific conclusions outside the lab, where variables can't be isolated, controlled, and might not even be known; push some of their analysis into the category of "Scientific Wild Ass Guessing."
The reason the CPSC and EPA are "not protecting consumers" from some substances (food, drugs, cosmetics and pesticides) is because they fall under other agencies purview (FDA, USDA, etc.) The Federal Government actually has a mandate to review new laws for redundnacy. The bureaucrats aren't great at it, but they do have a mandate. Or those products are addressed in other acts, and conflicting laws and regulations have been deconflicted. (Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA, etc.), and the Food Quality Protection Act (FQPA)).
Your assertions about modernization are true for most of the population in modernized industrial countries. But most of the world does not live in modernized industrial countries, OR the wealth distribution in their country does not leave the masses enjoying first world sanitation, even in the modern urban centers. Examples:
_As late as the early 1990's, I commanded Marines whose parents still lived in dirt floor cabins, used hand pumps or the nearby creek to meet their needs for potable water.
_Nairobi Kenya is a thoroughly modern city with a population of 4.4 million (officially) with every modern convenience. Different international agencies out the population over 6 million. Roughly 1/3 of that population lives in shanty towns that are bulldozed flat 2-3 times per year. They have no source of fresh potable water, no sewage removal system.
https://www.jonbarron.org/article/growth-cancer
I probably over-reacted to your question. From my perspective, a lot of Americans who don't really know much about the military, think:
Veterans are damaged goods, or high functioning children incapable of taking care of themselves. It provokes a visceral reaction in me. I fail to see what any government agencies or NGO's that do not have a military specific mandate would do more about chemicals for veterans and service members than the general population.
The reason the CPSC and EPA are "not protecting consumers" from some substances (food, drugs, cosmetics and pesticides) is because they fall under other agencies purview (FDA, USDA, etc.) The Federal Government actually has a mandate to review new laws for redundnacy. The bureaucrats aren't great at it, but they do have a mandate. Or those products are addressed in other acts, and conflicting laws and regulations have been deconflicted. (Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA, etc.), and the Food Quality Protection Act (FQPA)).
Your assertions about modernization are true for most of the population in modernized industrial countries. But most of the world does not live in modernized industrial countries, OR the wealth distribution in their country does not leave the masses enjoying first world sanitation, even in the modern urban centers. Examples:
_As late as the early 1990's, I commanded Marines whose parents still lived in dirt floor cabins, used hand pumps or the nearby creek to meet their needs for potable water.
_Nairobi Kenya is a thoroughly modern city with a population of 4.4 million (officially) with every modern convenience. Different international agencies out the population over 6 million. Roughly 1/3 of that population lives in shanty towns that are bulldozed flat 2-3 times per year. They have no source of fresh potable water, no sewage removal system.
https://www.jonbarron.org/article/growth-cancer
I probably over-reacted to your question. From my perspective, a lot of Americans who don't really know much about the military, think:
Veterans are damaged goods, or high functioning children incapable of taking care of themselves. It provokes a visceral reaction in me. I fail to see what any government agencies or NGO's that do not have a military specific mandate would do more about chemicals for veterans and service members than the general population.
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Study needs to include housekeepers as at many hospital the largest responsibility of cleaning and disinfecting falls with housekeepers.
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PFC Sherrie Pace-Truitt
Here is just from one article of Women's Voices for the Earth:
[1] Steinemann, A (2015) Volatile emissions from common consumer products. Air Quality, Atmosphere & Health. Vol. 8, No. 3, pp.273-281. June 2015.
[2] Behroozy, A and Keegel TG. (2014) Wet-work exposure: A Main Risk Factor for Occupational Hand Dermatitis. Safety and Health at Work. Vol. 5, No. 4, pp: 175-180. December 2014.
[3] Weschler CJ and Nazaroff WW. (2012) SVOC Exposure Indoors: Fresh Look at Dermal Pathways. Indoor Air. Vol. 22, pp: 356-377. 2012.
[4] McKenzie, L.B., Ahir, N., Stolz, U. and Nelson, N.G. (2010) Household Cleaning Product-Related Injuries Treated in US Emergency Departments in 1990-2006. Pediatrics. Vol. 126, No. 3, pp: 509-516. September 2010.
[5] Bauer A. (2013) Contact Dermatitis in the Cleaning Industry. Current Opinion in Allergy and Clinical Immunology. Vol. 13, No. 5, pp: 521-524. October 2013.
[6] Mowry JB, Spyker DA. Brooks DE, Zimmerman A and Schauben JL. (2016) 2015 Annual Report of the American Association of Poison Control Centers’ National Poison Data System (NPDS): 33rd Annual Report, Clinical Toxicology, Vol. 54, No. 10, 924-1109. 2016.
[7] Zock JP (2005) World at Work: Cleaners. Occupational and Environmental Medicine. Vol. 62, No. 8, pp:581-584. August 2005.
[8] Atramont A, Guida F, Mattei F, Matrat M, Cenee S, Sanchez M, Carton M, Menvielle G, Marrer E, Neri M, Luce D, Stucker I and the ICARE study group. (2016) Professional Cleaning Activities and Lung Cancer Risk Among Women: Results from the ICARE Study.
[9] Siracusa, A, De Blay F, Folletti I, Moscato G, Olivieri M, Quirce S, Raulf-Heimsoth M, Sastre J, Tarlo SM, Walusiak-Skorupa J and Zock JP. (2013) Asthma and exposure to cleaning products – a European Academy of Allergy and Clinical Immunology task force consensus statement. European Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology. Vol. 68, pp: 1532-1545. 2013.
[10] Liskowsky, J, Geier, J. and Bauer, A. (2011) Contact allergy in the cleaning industry: analysis of contact allergy surveillance data of the Information Network of Departments of Dermatology. Contact Dermatis. Vol. 65. pp: 159-166. 2011.
[11] Chevrier C., Dananche B., Bahuau M., Nelva A., Herman C., Francannet C., Robert-Gnansia E. and Cordier S. (2006) Occupational exposure to organic solvent mixtures during pregnancy and the risk of non-syndromic oral clefts. Occupational and Environmental Medicine. Vol. 63, pp:617-623. 2006.
[12] Olshan, AF., Baird, PA., Teschke, K. (1989) Paternal Occupational Exposures and the Risk of Down Syndrome. American Journal of Human Genetics. Vol. 44: 646-651. 1989. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2523192
[13] Halden RU, Lindeman AE, Aiello AE, Andrews D, Arnold WA, Fair P, Fuoco RE, Geer LA, Johnson PI, Lohmann R, McNeill K,Sacks VP, Schettler T, Weber W, Zoeller RT and Blum A. (2017) The Florence Statement on Triclosan and Triclocarban. Environmental Health Perspectives. Vol. 125, No. 6. June 2017.
[14] Aiello A et.al. (2003) Antibacterial cleaning and hygiene products as an emerging risk factor for antibiotic resistance in the community. Lancet. Vol.3: 501-506. August 2003.
[15] Chevrier C., Dananche B., Bahuau M., Nelva A., Herman C., Francannet C., Robert-Gnansia E. and Cordier S. (2006) Occupational exposure to organic solvent mixtures during pregnancy and the risk of non-syndromic oral clefts. Occupational and Environmental Medicine. Vol. 63, pp:617-623. 2006.
[16] Herdt-Losavio et.al. (2010) Maternal occupation and the risk of birth defects: an overview from the National Birth Defects Prevention Study. Occup. Envir. Med. Vol. 67, pp. 58-66. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20029025
[17] Lorente C., Cordier S., Bergeret A., De Walle HEK., Goujard J., Ayme S., Knill-Jones R., Calzolari E. and Bianchi F. (2000) Maternal Occupational Risk Factors for Oral Clefts. Scandinavian Journal of Work, Environment and Health. Vol. 26, No.2, pp:137-145. 2000.
[18] International Fragrance Association (IFRA) (2013) IFRA Survey: Transparency List. Available at: http://www.ifraorg.org/en-us/ingredients
[19] Kumar, P., Caradonna-Graham, V.M., Gupta, S, Cai, X, Rao, P.N. and Thompson, J. (1995) Inhalation challenge effects of perfume scent strips in patients with asthma. Annals of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology. Vol. 75, pp: 429-433. November 1995.
[20] Women’s Voices for the Earth (2015) Fragrance Chemicals on the European Union Endocrine Disruptors Priority List. https://www.womensvoices.org/fragrance-ingredients/fragrance-chemicals-endocrine-disruptors-priority-list/
[21] Rudel RA, Ackerman JM, Attfield KR and Brody JG. (2014) New Exposure Biomarkers as Tools for Breast Cancer Epidemiology, Biomonitoring, and Prevention: A Systematic Approach Based on Animal Evidence. Environmental Health Perspectives. Vol. 122, No. 9, pp: 881-895. September 2014.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/tech-and-science/science/essential-science-cleaning-chemicals-linked-to-lung-cancer/article/515250
[1] Steinemann, A (2015) Volatile emissions from common consumer products. Air Quality, Atmosphere & Health. Vol. 8, No. 3, pp.273-281. June 2015.
[2] Behroozy, A and Keegel TG. (2014) Wet-work exposure: A Main Risk Factor for Occupational Hand Dermatitis. Safety and Health at Work. Vol. 5, No. 4, pp: 175-180. December 2014.
[3] Weschler CJ and Nazaroff WW. (2012) SVOC Exposure Indoors: Fresh Look at Dermal Pathways. Indoor Air. Vol. 22, pp: 356-377. 2012.
[4] McKenzie, L.B., Ahir, N., Stolz, U. and Nelson, N.G. (2010) Household Cleaning Product-Related Injuries Treated in US Emergency Departments in 1990-2006. Pediatrics. Vol. 126, No. 3, pp: 509-516. September 2010.
[5] Bauer A. (2013) Contact Dermatitis in the Cleaning Industry. Current Opinion in Allergy and Clinical Immunology. Vol. 13, No. 5, pp: 521-524. October 2013.
[6] Mowry JB, Spyker DA. Brooks DE, Zimmerman A and Schauben JL. (2016) 2015 Annual Report of the American Association of Poison Control Centers’ National Poison Data System (NPDS): 33rd Annual Report, Clinical Toxicology, Vol. 54, No. 10, 924-1109. 2016.
[7] Zock JP (2005) World at Work: Cleaners. Occupational and Environmental Medicine. Vol. 62, No. 8, pp:581-584. August 2005.
[8] Atramont A, Guida F, Mattei F, Matrat M, Cenee S, Sanchez M, Carton M, Menvielle G, Marrer E, Neri M, Luce D, Stucker I and the ICARE study group. (2016) Professional Cleaning Activities and Lung Cancer Risk Among Women: Results from the ICARE Study.
[9] Siracusa, A, De Blay F, Folletti I, Moscato G, Olivieri M, Quirce S, Raulf-Heimsoth M, Sastre J, Tarlo SM, Walusiak-Skorupa J and Zock JP. (2013) Asthma and exposure to cleaning products – a European Academy of Allergy and Clinical Immunology task force consensus statement. European Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology. Vol. 68, pp: 1532-1545. 2013.
[10] Liskowsky, J, Geier, J. and Bauer, A. (2011) Contact allergy in the cleaning industry: analysis of contact allergy surveillance data of the Information Network of Departments of Dermatology. Contact Dermatis. Vol. 65. pp: 159-166. 2011.
[11] Chevrier C., Dananche B., Bahuau M., Nelva A., Herman C., Francannet C., Robert-Gnansia E. and Cordier S. (2006) Occupational exposure to organic solvent mixtures during pregnancy and the risk of non-syndromic oral clefts. Occupational and Environmental Medicine. Vol. 63, pp:617-623. 2006.
[12] Olshan, AF., Baird, PA., Teschke, K. (1989) Paternal Occupational Exposures and the Risk of Down Syndrome. American Journal of Human Genetics. Vol. 44: 646-651. 1989. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2523192
[13] Halden RU, Lindeman AE, Aiello AE, Andrews D, Arnold WA, Fair P, Fuoco RE, Geer LA, Johnson PI, Lohmann R, McNeill K,Sacks VP, Schettler T, Weber W, Zoeller RT and Blum A. (2017) The Florence Statement on Triclosan and Triclocarban. Environmental Health Perspectives. Vol. 125, No. 6. June 2017.
[14] Aiello A et.al. (2003) Antibacterial cleaning and hygiene products as an emerging risk factor for antibiotic resistance in the community. Lancet. Vol.3: 501-506. August 2003.
[15] Chevrier C., Dananche B., Bahuau M., Nelva A., Herman C., Francannet C., Robert-Gnansia E. and Cordier S. (2006) Occupational exposure to organic solvent mixtures during pregnancy and the risk of non-syndromic oral clefts. Occupational and Environmental Medicine. Vol. 63, pp:617-623. 2006.
[16] Herdt-Losavio et.al. (2010) Maternal occupation and the risk of birth defects: an overview from the National Birth Defects Prevention Study. Occup. Envir. Med. Vol. 67, pp. 58-66. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20029025
[17] Lorente C., Cordier S., Bergeret A., De Walle HEK., Goujard J., Ayme S., Knill-Jones R., Calzolari E. and Bianchi F. (2000) Maternal Occupational Risk Factors for Oral Clefts. Scandinavian Journal of Work, Environment and Health. Vol. 26, No.2, pp:137-145. 2000.
[18] International Fragrance Association (IFRA) (2013) IFRA Survey: Transparency List. Available at: http://www.ifraorg.org/en-us/ingredients
[19] Kumar, P., Caradonna-Graham, V.M., Gupta, S, Cai, X, Rao, P.N. and Thompson, J. (1995) Inhalation challenge effects of perfume scent strips in patients with asthma. Annals of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology. Vol. 75, pp: 429-433. November 1995.
[20] Women’s Voices for the Earth (2015) Fragrance Chemicals on the European Union Endocrine Disruptors Priority List. https://www.womensvoices.org/fragrance-ingredients/fragrance-chemicals-endocrine-disruptors-priority-list/
[21] Rudel RA, Ackerman JM, Attfield KR and Brody JG. (2014) New Exposure Biomarkers as Tools for Breast Cancer Epidemiology, Biomonitoring, and Prevention: A Systematic Approach Based on Animal Evidence. Environmental Health Perspectives. Vol. 122, No. 9, pp: 881-895. September 2014.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/tech-and-science/science/essential-science-cleaning-chemicals-linked-to-lung-cancer/article/515250
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