Posted on Jul 14, 2015
What are the best ways to get promoted to E-5, even though your promotion points are at 798 and you have not been deployed?
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Posted 9 y ago
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The best why I would say is to max out everything else on your plate. Deployments are a thing of the past until the next war or your assigned to a special unit. If you have maxed everything else minus deployments then you have done all you can for the MOS and you must wait tell the Army has a need for E-5s in your field. Another was is to reclass.
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I don't know what "the best" way is... but I can tell you what "the fastest" way often is - and it is so far removed from the Army Values, but it is to be in the little good ol'boys club.
I wasn't when I was AD. I didn't have the time, and I didn't like to fish or bromanticize over the small town ideal. I had way too much world knowledge to be accepted, and I also read a lot... and books are like kryptonite for some people.. and if my story was an exception or even a unusual one - then it could be discarded. But it is so very common. Shame, but nepotism runs deep in all layers of society - not exclusively the military.
I wasn't when I was AD. I didn't have the time, and I didn't like to fish or bromanticize over the small town ideal. I had way too much world knowledge to be accepted, and I also read a lot... and books are like kryptonite for some people.. and if my story was an exception or even a unusual one - then it could be discarded. But it is so very common. Shame, but nepotism runs deep in all layers of society - not exclusively the military.
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If you really love your MOS don't change it just to get promoted. Changing your MOS to one of a lower cutoff leaves you entering an entirely new career track and becoming an NCO with little to no experience in the new MOS. My advice would be to max PT, expert qualifications, max out military education and do your best to get as much civilian education as you can. It's so easy to get those college credits now with all the programs available to do via the Internet.
Volunteer for a deployment, do some volunteer work to get your name out there. Step up and ask for more responsibility so your superiors see that your motivated and will maybe send you to another school that falls in line with your MOS. ask for a sit down with leadership team and ask them what you can do to advance farther, you'd be surprised at what they can tell you that you get points for that you aren't thinking of. Go to any and all schools you can, even when you're maxed out. The chain of command loves those troops who are motivated and do things even though they aren't going to gain personally from it and will find a way to get you the needed points.
Make yourself irreplaceable, make your self highly visible, up front and volunteer for everything that you can.
Are you maxed on PT, weapons qual, awards, education? What did you score on the boards? Have you been? If not study study study, it is possible to max the board. I scored a 195 out of 200 on my boards, got docked 5 because I didn't have orders in my 201 for an award. My board members were cool about it though, they gave me til the end of the day to show proof of the award. They didn't bump me up but had I not shown the orders they would have docked me an additional 25pts.
It seems impossible to get 798 points but it's possible. Do they still do SQTs? If so work on it until you get maxed in that too. When your required cutoff score is max you need to max everything.
Volunteer for a deployment, do some volunteer work to get your name out there. Step up and ask for more responsibility so your superiors see that your motivated and will maybe send you to another school that falls in line with your MOS. ask for a sit down with leadership team and ask them what you can do to advance farther, you'd be surprised at what they can tell you that you get points for that you aren't thinking of. Go to any and all schools you can, even when you're maxed out. The chain of command loves those troops who are motivated and do things even though they aren't going to gain personally from it and will find a way to get you the needed points.
Make yourself irreplaceable, make your self highly visible, up front and volunteer for everything that you can.
Are you maxed on PT, weapons qual, awards, education? What did you score on the boards? Have you been? If not study study study, it is possible to max the board. I scored a 195 out of 200 on my boards, got docked 5 because I didn't have orders in my 201 for an award. My board members were cool about it though, they gave me til the end of the day to show proof of the award. They didn't bump me up but had I not shown the orders they would have docked me an additional 25pts.
It seems impossible to get 798 points but it's possible. Do they still do SQTs? If so work on it until you get maxed in that too. When your required cutoff score is max you need to max everything.
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SGT Timothy Rocheleau
Yes I have been out awhile. While you wouldn't reckoned a soldier stay in an MOS that has stagnant growth I wouldn't reckoned switching just to get promoted. Seems like the best way to do it would be to research what fields you are interested in from the start ensuring that whichever field you choose doesn't have a stagnant career path. When you switch career fields simply to get promoted your gaming the system and you become a "leader" with zero experience in your new field. I'd hate to be that E-4 in a field who is working towards promotion, is an expert at his job and then in comes this new person with zero experience having just re classed and gains his promotion that way. Now I'm working for die one who didn't have the foresight to choose and prepare for a career path that they could advance in from the start.
Another way to look at this would be, would you go to college for a degree in auto mechanics knowing that you're going to top out in 8 years and then have to go back to college for a new career. Seems counter productive to me. And while you may not get promotion point for the board anymore there are ways to get their points, how many awards do you have, what's your apt score, how much military and civilian education do you have? If you want something bad enough you will get it. It really is as simple as that. I was promoted in a field where the cutoff was 998, I've also been stationed with many people who advanced with a "max" cutoff score. If you love what you do then you find a way. You work on yourself and career path to better your chances, if you love what you are doing you don't cut and run, you better yourself! Dropping to an MOS that has a lower cutoff isn't improving yourself. Now if you don't like your current MOS and you have the ability to reclass to something that you will love then by all means go for it. But who wants to be an E-5 as an 88M if that isn't your love but the cut offs are 450? Sure, you'll always have your initial MOS as a secondary but how long if at all will it take to switch back to that MOS. I've been out now 20 years so I am sure that a lot has changed. But I stand firm on my original stance of not changing your MOS just to get promoted. Your taking an NCO slot from another soldier who truly loves that job and wants to stay in as well. If you can't make your 5 in 8 years for any MOS then there are several pslossinikities for why, the least of which should be "the cutoff is too high", in my mindset that is a cop out, that is a not accepting thebchallenge to improve yourself.
In my career in the Army I witnessed many people come in as a new "E-5" having just reclass end and they didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground and garnered zero respect from their subordinates and their leadership team because they were clueless. Having said this, I've also seen those that reclass we, pinned on their 5 and were better at their position than the SGT who came up in that MOS.
Re classing to get promoted is just not something that I would allow myself to do. When it came time for me to prepare for my 5, I quit smoking and trained everyday to max out PT, I was already qualified expert so was maxed out there, was already maxed out on military education(it was one of my pet peeves as well as my platoo SGT's), so I signed up for all the classes that my PSGT would allow me to take at the local community college. You have 7-8 years to be preparing for advancement to the ranks of the NCO and if you take your military career seriously you should be preparing for becoming an NCO from day one. This means picking an MOS that you love, something that you absolutely want to do with your life and you don't sign a contract unless that is the MOS offered to you. You prepare by approaching your leadership team and your assigned mentor(they do still assign new privates a mentor right), and you tell them from day one what your career goals are and your mentor, leadership team and yourself develop a road map for success in your chosen field. And you follow that road map without deviation unless the deviation increases your ability to progress.
If you find after doing all this you are still "stuck" then maybe reclass. If your an E4 in military intelligence or IT and then reclass to 88M simply to get promoted not only are you cheating yourself your cheating our country, you're wasting your abilities.
I'm sure some will disagree with my stance, I'm sure I may even get voted down but this is my stance.
Entering the military isn't something to be taken lightly. This is the biggest commitment one will make with their life and they need to think about it in depth prior to signing that contract, if you're going in for the college fund and know beyond a reasonable doubt you aren't staying in then you still need to sit down and map out what your goals are. If you want to be a software engineer in life then don't pick supply clerk as your MOS, pick something to do with software and computers. If you have plans to be a "careerist" then you absolutely should have a developed plan with a road map for success.
Entering the military should be viewed no different than attending college for a degree in a career path. You're going to spend a minimum of four years in this commitment and possibly the rest of your working life you damned we'll have a plan.
So what is the process to get promoted to E-5 now? A specialist gets recommended and goes to the board but you don't get points for the board? You either get recommended or not gaining no points? Did they replace these possible 200 points with another mechanism to achieve these 200 points or did they just do away with those available points? Lim sitting next to a young man that I am mentoring who got out within the last 5 years and he states that when he went to the board he still recieved promotion points for attending.
Long story short, my recommendation has always been and will always be, ensure when you sign that contract you are getting what you want and have developed a plan for advancement prior to entering and stick to that plan only changing it if the change increases your chance of promotion in the career tract that you will love. Because no matter how much you want to advance and stay in you won't be happy being an NCO in a career tract you don't love and enjoy!
My 25 year old daughter has been in the Air Firce for 7 years and this is the very advice that I have to her when she joined. Pick something you want to do or change to another MOS not to get promoted but because it is something you feel you will not only be good at but excel at but make this change upon your first Renlistment or as soon as is allowed.
Her words to me recently were, "dad, I want to stay in and make the Air Force a career but I'm not sure I love what I am doing but I don't want to be that SGT who just reclassed and then have subordinates who know the Job better than I do. And by this she refers to the actual job classification not being a leader. And I agree with her, how can you be a successful and respected leader if you are not an expert at your job? Who wants to follow a leader that knows less than they do? Not very many people from my experience.
Another way to look at this would be, would you go to college for a degree in auto mechanics knowing that you're going to top out in 8 years and then have to go back to college for a new career. Seems counter productive to me. And while you may not get promotion point for the board anymore there are ways to get their points, how many awards do you have, what's your apt score, how much military and civilian education do you have? If you want something bad enough you will get it. It really is as simple as that. I was promoted in a field where the cutoff was 998, I've also been stationed with many people who advanced with a "max" cutoff score. If you love what you do then you find a way. You work on yourself and career path to better your chances, if you love what you are doing you don't cut and run, you better yourself! Dropping to an MOS that has a lower cutoff isn't improving yourself. Now if you don't like your current MOS and you have the ability to reclass to something that you will love then by all means go for it. But who wants to be an E-5 as an 88M if that isn't your love but the cut offs are 450? Sure, you'll always have your initial MOS as a secondary but how long if at all will it take to switch back to that MOS. I've been out now 20 years so I am sure that a lot has changed. But I stand firm on my original stance of not changing your MOS just to get promoted. Your taking an NCO slot from another soldier who truly loves that job and wants to stay in as well. If you can't make your 5 in 8 years for any MOS then there are several pslossinikities for why, the least of which should be "the cutoff is too high", in my mindset that is a cop out, that is a not accepting thebchallenge to improve yourself.
In my career in the Army I witnessed many people come in as a new "E-5" having just reclass end and they didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground and garnered zero respect from their subordinates and their leadership team because they were clueless. Having said this, I've also seen those that reclass we, pinned on their 5 and were better at their position than the SGT who came up in that MOS.
Re classing to get promoted is just not something that I would allow myself to do. When it came time for me to prepare for my 5, I quit smoking and trained everyday to max out PT, I was already qualified expert so was maxed out there, was already maxed out on military education(it was one of my pet peeves as well as my platoo SGT's), so I signed up for all the classes that my PSGT would allow me to take at the local community college. You have 7-8 years to be preparing for advancement to the ranks of the NCO and if you take your military career seriously you should be preparing for becoming an NCO from day one. This means picking an MOS that you love, something that you absolutely want to do with your life and you don't sign a contract unless that is the MOS offered to you. You prepare by approaching your leadership team and your assigned mentor(they do still assign new privates a mentor right), and you tell them from day one what your career goals are and your mentor, leadership team and yourself develop a road map for success in your chosen field. And you follow that road map without deviation unless the deviation increases your ability to progress.
If you find after doing all this you are still "stuck" then maybe reclass. If your an E4 in military intelligence or IT and then reclass to 88M simply to get promoted not only are you cheating yourself your cheating our country, you're wasting your abilities.
I'm sure some will disagree with my stance, I'm sure I may even get voted down but this is my stance.
Entering the military isn't something to be taken lightly. This is the biggest commitment one will make with their life and they need to think about it in depth prior to signing that contract, if you're going in for the college fund and know beyond a reasonable doubt you aren't staying in then you still need to sit down and map out what your goals are. If you want to be a software engineer in life then don't pick supply clerk as your MOS, pick something to do with software and computers. If you have plans to be a "careerist" then you absolutely should have a developed plan with a road map for success.
Entering the military should be viewed no different than attending college for a degree in a career path. You're going to spend a minimum of four years in this commitment and possibly the rest of your working life you damned we'll have a plan.
So what is the process to get promoted to E-5 now? A specialist gets recommended and goes to the board but you don't get points for the board? You either get recommended or not gaining no points? Did they replace these possible 200 points with another mechanism to achieve these 200 points or did they just do away with those available points? Lim sitting next to a young man that I am mentoring who got out within the last 5 years and he states that when he went to the board he still recieved promotion points for attending.
Long story short, my recommendation has always been and will always be, ensure when you sign that contract you are getting what you want and have developed a plan for advancement prior to entering and stick to that plan only changing it if the change increases your chance of promotion in the career tract that you will love. Because no matter how much you want to advance and stay in you won't be happy being an NCO in a career tract you don't love and enjoy!
My 25 year old daughter has been in the Air Firce for 7 years and this is the very advice that I have to her when she joined. Pick something you want to do or change to another MOS not to get promoted but because it is something you feel you will not only be good at but excel at but make this change upon your first Renlistment or as soon as is allowed.
Her words to me recently were, "dad, I want to stay in and make the Air Force a career but I'm not sure I love what I am doing but I don't want to be that SGT who just reclassed and then have subordinates who know the Job better than I do. And by this she refers to the actual job classification not being a leader. And I agree with her, how can you be a successful and respected leader if you are not an expert at your job? Who wants to follow a leader that knows less than they do? Not very many people from my experience.
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SGT Timothy Rocheleau
You say a "specialist can only serve a max of 8 years and then are forced out". There are no allowances for being in a "stagnant MOS"? You've done everything to get promoted but no matter what you do you can't obtain promotion? So basically a particular MOS is set up for failure? I find that hard to believe or there wouldn't be NCOs in that field. You might have to be perfect and have maxed out every path to promotion points but it is possible.
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Take a lot of civilian educational classes and if you can't go to as many military schools as you can get slotted for and if worst comes to worse reclass
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I got a new twist to this. See Special catagories for promotion in AR 600-8-19. For instance, once completed ranger school and the SM passes the promotion board his points are basically "boosted" to 799. I know I have done it for a few people who have completed this process. Your BN S1 has to submit a packet to HRC for them to give you the 799 points. It may be the hardest thing you do in life(based of off what I hear), but it will pay itself off.
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