Posted on Aug 28, 2020
SSG Intelligence Analyst
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Im writing a paper for a class on the Jacob Blake shooting on what could have been done differently. After reviewing relevant fact on the matter, do you believe the escalation of force used in the shooting was justified or not and why?

Can we link these to the perceived "systemic racism" and the George Floyd/Breonna Taylor cases?

Please provide justified responses and examples of what could or could not have been done differently.
Posted in these groups: Racism logo RacismPolicy Policy039676ce0a0d028a0130c8e92856985b Police
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Responses: 58
SPC Adrian LaPene
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The biggest problem in policing today is far too many POs haven’t been in a fight and the joke of defensive tactics during the academy does nothing. As crazy as it sounds POs need actual training in a grappling art. I say grappling not because of the popularity of BJJ, I say grappling because it is a controlling art and that is what is needed. Control and pain compliance. With an actual understanding and practical knowledge of controlling your adversary it gives the PO confidence in themselves and their abilities.
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CW2 Scott Quaife
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I think in the case of Breonna Taylor that could have been anyone, anywhere in the US that has 'No knock warrants". The narrative is she was a black, unarmed female in the wrong place at the wrong time. I see the need in cases of no knock warrants of course in multiple cases the Army/Marines/Spec Ops community performs in a combat environment. You want to minimize civilian/non-combative casualties in almost every case. I think perhaps recognition should be used in almost all cases. Surround the house/apartment to ensure all escape points are covered. I believe if the police unit identified themselves first there could be a better than 85% chance she would be alive today. In the case of Jacob if he was asked multiple times to stand down and not reach into his vehicle then this becomes a stickier situation at best. However, rules of engagement need to be consistent across the board. I have a sense, though again opinion, that had he been a white male he wouldn't have been shot. I would have clearly taken a different angle on Jacob and had someone verify what he was reaching in the vehicle for at that moment. If it was a gun he was grabbing then the officer has the right to self defense and this is a mute point, rest in peace Jacob. He was shot in the back though 7 times without being armed at the moment. Here is an example, though from a military perspective. As an attack pilot, in Iraq, my company, not me, was supporting a ground unit in Baghdad. A fire fight broke out, in the protection of the Mosque Walls their helicopter was shot at and subsequently that individual was killed by our company's helicopter. In that moment following a female and her son walked up to the deceased attacker, stood near the gun and it seemed like would reach for it. The pilot, keeping a close eye had no probable cause to shoot her. Why? although she stood near the weapon, she didn't possess it and thus was not an immediate threat. She walked away with the child and lived. Remember, these officers have to make split second decisions. I don't believe Jacob should have been shot, unless he emerged or was clearly reaching in his vehicle for a weapon. Biases, whether we all want to admit, exist in all of us, white, black, brown, etc. Proper training and continued training is a must to prevent these cases from happening across this great land.
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SGT Kevin Dorsey
SGT Kevin Dorsey
5 y
Unfortunately, id he immerged with a gun, the officer the officer most likely would not have been able to stop him before he would have been able to start shooting. Unlike in the movies one or two or even seven shots will not instantly stop someone holding a firearm. Outside of hitting the central nervous system as in the spinal cord or brain, multiple center mass shots although the usual target do not instantly stop the other actors movements. Waiting would have cost the officer serious to fatal injuries as well as the suspect.
The Breonna shooting was not a no knock warrant according to the office PD release. The was a media lie to sway public opinion.
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Sgt Dan Catlin
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My brother and I were both martial artists, and I was the "training dummy" for him when he went through the academy to become a Deputy. We worked on the controls they used, and the counters a violent person might use (every move has a counter) until they were instinctive. We also continued to work out with other cops later. Action always beats reaction, and a person with a knife can spin and stab or slash deceptively fast. And a blade doesn't even have to move to kill- if you move against it it still does its job very well. Even from considerable distance unless you've lived it or trained "with intent" it is amazing how little time you have to react. If a violent person reaches for or grasps a weapon, anything less than immediate use of lethal force risks the officers life. And one bullet, even to a vital area won't stop a determined attacker. Using less than lethal options may work most of the time, but far from every time. I have carried out what would have been a lethal assault after being doused with pepper spray (the police stuff, not the watered down civilian variety). Add to that if they end up in a grappling match with someone sprayed with OC, it rubs off on them and they are now effected by it just like me (I loved that! But then, I have an evil streak ...) So if you wish to render a judgment in this paper, I suggest a trip to your PD and find out if there are any of them that do realistic training and experience it for yourself. Because until you experience a full force attack, one with "intent," you can't know.

As an aside, I was an EMT. I've dealt with violent drug users, and can tell you if drugs are involved the game changes. It just got way more serious for everyone, especially cops.
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MAJ Byron Oyler
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Police non-lethal options have been neutered around the country and really forced the escalation to lethal. A good hit with a collapsable metal baton to the back of Blake's thigh would have done wonders but people were already filming by that point and that would have made the news. Grabbing someone by their neck and tripping them to ground works pretty well but that is not allowed so many places. Both of those may have prevented the shooting. Following police commands would have prevented the shooting. All these Monday morning quarterbacks need to learn, you do not win a fight with equal force, you win with overwhelming force, the same force so many people call excessive force. Excessive non-lethal is almost always better than lethal force.
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PO1 Don Rowan
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Justified. He was out of control and went for a weapon. Done. I'm not asking anyone, including the police, to risk themselves while dealing with these people and if black lives mattered why are exponentially more killed by blacks???
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PO2 Mike Keyes
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Edited >1 y ago
Absolutely justified.
I don't care what his history is. I don't care if I have knowledge that he has a weapon. I certainly don't care what color his skin is.
I care about surviving the encounter. What I have to go on at that moment boils down to a couple salient facts: 1) I am dealing with a man that is not following my commands. 2) I am dealing with a man that is physically combative. 3) our less-than-lethal tools have failed to control him. 4) we have lost physical control of his movements and he is now reaching into an area I can't see for I don't know what. I have reasonable fear of great bodily harm or death.
My choices at that point are to stop him by any means necessary and live, or wait it out and hope that he's just getting his driver's licence for me and risk being killed.
Not only do I shoot him, but I KEEP shooting him until he stops doing what he's doing and is no longer a threat.
There's a longer video that shows the entire encounter, but this will give you the idea.
https://youtu.be/_BZkxLQ6zlk
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LtCol Robert Quinter
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I apologize in advance for my inability to provide the responses to the questions you have posed. I do not have the investigative results that would give me a full explanation of why these incidents occurred.
Unfortunately, many with predisposed opinions are prepared to act before they have answers. Investigating officials are subjected to assaults and riotous masses even as they are doing their investigation and the blood hasn't dried at the scene.
The right to "peacefully protest" has been interpreted as the "right to riot, destroy, and attack".
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Cpl Mark McMiller
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You know what. When a police officer is giving you commands, obey the commands. Don't argue with them. Don't fight them. Obey them and minimize your chance of being shot. Because if I'm a cop and you're fighting with me and then you disobey my commands and open your car door and reach inside, I'm not going to give you a chance to grab a firearm and shoot me; I'm going to put your lights out. There is no systematic racism in this country; the law is the same for everyone. Black people aren't being killed by cops because they're black. They're being killed by cops because they are resisting and not following commands and putting both their own lives and the cops lives in danger.
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SGT Doug Blanchard
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In the case of George Floyd, it was revealed by othe cell phone video that he was resusting arrest. The officers had him in the cruiser and he shattered the side widow out of the doir by kicking it. They pulled him from the cruiser to try to calm him down. The autopsy report showed he waz high on meth at the time.
As for Breona Taylor, you need to find the fault with her boyfriend, as he was the durect cause if her death. Neighbors verified that the police identified themselves as such before breaking in. Her boyfruend started shootung at them, they returned fire and she was hit. She was not targeted by the police as the lame stream media and groups like blm would have you believe
If he had not shot at the police, chances are she would be alive today.
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Jerry Rivas
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More police need training in DE-escalation techniques.....Why would the armed guy with ALL the weapons feel the need to ESCALATE for Christs sake?
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