Posted on Aug 26, 2015
What are your thoughts on Military vs. Civilian Pay?
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Recently there has been alot of discussion in regards to military pay. Many advocates for increasing military pay are current military active duty or veterans. Many advocates against increasing military pay are, well frankly people who have never served and don't appreciate or like our military and many so called "experts" of the economy. I, of course, have my own opinion and while I may get crap for it. I'm mostly against increasing military pay. I see both sides of the argument and I think the strongest arguments for both sides are, the military serves our nation and does a job that many don't want to do and that many cant do due to their physical or mental capabilities. On the other hand, the military is a voluntary service and it is not about having a median paying career (or 4 year enlistment). It's about serving and fighting for America and our freedoms because we're patriotic Americans.
The last thing I'd like to mention to give everyone something to think about is how all expenses are paid for by the military. At the same time, the military would have a very tough time retaining troops if they aren't competitive with the civilian sector pay especially considering some of the crap the military has to put up with ie daily formations, field day, extremely long work days, etc.
With all that in mind, what is everyone else's thoughts on this matter?
The last thing I'd like to mention to give everyone something to think about is how all expenses are paid for by the military. At the same time, the military would have a very tough time retaining troops if they aren't competitive with the civilian sector pay especially considering some of the crap the military has to put up with ie daily formations, field day, extremely long work days, etc.
With all that in mind, what is everyone else's thoughts on this matter?
Military Pay
Civilian Career
Military Career
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 7
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Those who served and who have served deal with more than that of an average american on a daily basis. We expect our service members to go into harm's way and not expect decent compensation of benifits, just shut up and do what you are told. Those who have not served a day ane are working at a minimum wage job are getting paid, or trying to get paid $15 an hour, that's more than our junior service members are getting and they put up with so much more because of their rank. I'm sorry for what they do for us on a daily basis and the crap they put up with their pay should equate to their civilian counterparts. You want to keep the best you have to give them incentives to stay. PAYING THEM is a start...
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To start I never felt under paid while active duty. I have felt shorted on per diem but that is a service by service thing. My medical and dental was covered 100 percent even when I had $40,000 of dental implants done. I received pay while In treatment facilities and on vacation. I got to go to a bunch of cool places and while there sight see . When I was a E3 I had a place to stay and 3 meals a day. Now civilian sector does pay more in certain jobs but that's nature of the game our pay is divided between multiple branches so they have to meet budget. Where a civil org can pay more since they are smaller (that's how I figure it.) But they have to pay for their insurance and some jobs don't even offer paid vacations. I'm self employed now. Guess what if I don't work I don't get paid.
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Pay and benefits is a tricky question that can backfire in the view of public opinion. With Obamacare and other changes, people have theirs hours cut, can't afford health care, will get dinged by the IRS for it, etc. So rubbing the military benefits issue into their noses isn't a good idea. TriCare touts they meet the "minimum" Obamacare requirements. Actually it's much higher in that a Mil type can actually receive the service vs. not being able to afford it out in town. We don't need to create more grist for the PR mill. Bottom line, the Mil types have it better than many. So the question becomes what is the value of the service and how should it be compensated vs. the risks? Careful there too as the general public doesn't have a good yardstick to compare your risk to. Just yelling about it will turn them off.
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The military competes for talent in the open marketplace. If people have better options, they opt into different careers. Like any organization, public or private, if you don't offer competitive compensation (which includes both wages and benefits), you will have difficulty attracting and retaining a quality workforce. In my opinion, service members shouldn't expect to receive a premium (for serving their country), and society shouldn't expect to receive a discount (because people are patriotic). Compensation for service members should adjust along the way, just like compensation in the private sector adjusts along the way.
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OK so if it's "about" serving your country, then Congress and the president should make under 15k a year.
It's not what it's about, it's what is deserved. You said it yourself, the military is only the very best physically and mentally of this nation. So why not at least try to pay some of us like that?
I can tell by your other posts you have a terrible knack for oversimplifying things to prove your point.
It's not what it's about, it's what is deserved. You said it yourself, the military is only the very best physically and mentally of this nation. So why not at least try to pay some of us like that?
I can tell by your other posts you have a terrible knack for oversimplifying things to prove your point.
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Sgt (Join to see)
I do think Congress and the president are overpaid. Maybe not 15k a year but maybe 50k. If they live like the average American then they actually could gain an understanding of the typical American problems.
And since you brought up the "paying us like the very best physically and mentally in the nation", does that mean you'd like to be paid millions of dollars a year? That's what pro athletes make and they are only top tier physical specimen. Not exactly top tier mental specimen. But if the military is both then what pay is appropriate?
And since you brought up the "paying us like the very best physically and mentally in the nation", does that mean you'd like to be paid millions of dollars a year? That's what pro athletes make and they are only top tier physical specimen. Not exactly top tier mental specimen. But if the military is both then what pay is appropriate?
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SPC (Join to see)
With your extreme views, and inability to think outside of your box, this conversation is no longer worth it for me.
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We volunteered to serve our country in its military, not, to be barely compensated for it. Since I've been in the VA has gone to shit. The politicians pay us less every year and they was to slash benefits. Congress on the other hand gets paid more now than they ever did while being less productive than they have ever been in recent memory.
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SPC (Join to see)
Our pay raises are not equal to the rate of inflation. Meaning when the price of living goes up, our pay does not match. In my mind that is the same as a pay cut.
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SSgt (Join to see)
Sgt (Join to see) besides flag grade officers, who is rich in the military? I made $35,067.60 last year, that doesn't even make me middle class in most places. Benefits like free medical while you are on active duty? The Marine Corps or other Marines has caused every trip of mine to BAS. A college education for potentially risking your life and limbs while serving in countries that don't want you there? When I joined I had to pay to get my GI Bill. Most of the benefits of being in the military are intangible, the challenge, camaraderie, pride of belonging . Those that chose to stay in after their first enlistment are doing it largely because they love what they do. As far as being paid extra for living out in town for being married the best way to minimize this would be to force anyone in their first term to live in base housing. There goes one of the two biggest "benefits" to getting married which is getting out of the barracks. You mention too many people wanting to join, many articles have been published stating that 2/3 of young Americans are unfit for service. They (the people) are already disqualifying themselves before they even walk in the door.
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SSgt (Join to see)
LCDR (Join to see) - what I meant was our annual pay raise in recent years hasn't kept up with inflation. It has done that for most of my carrier in the Corps
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LCDR (Join to see)
SSgt (Join to see) Ah, you're dead on then. We have at times had administrations try to make up for this, but in general you're right and we need to make sure pay raises are somehow tied automatically to inflation to avoid not giving them to "save money"
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I'm tempted to agree with you some and disagree some as well.
I can completely understand that pay "balance" between military and non-military jobs will never occur, and as you mention I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing. I also think the stories about food stamps are at times overinflated. There are some gaps that need to be closed, but there are also E1s that drive brand new cars. I have never owned a new car in my life and I don't think that is a measure that should say anything about our pay scales.
As you mention as we start off in the military, literally everything is provided for us. If you look at starting pay as more of a stipend than a living expense (food and shelter are already taken care of) the situation isn't the same. However the pay in the gap when that transition from barracks and mess hall to living in town occurs is the one that hits the hardest.
I can completely understand that pay "balance" between military and non-military jobs will never occur, and as you mention I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing. I also think the stories about food stamps are at times overinflated. There are some gaps that need to be closed, but there are also E1s that drive brand new cars. I have never owned a new car in my life and I don't think that is a measure that should say anything about our pay scales.
As you mention as we start off in the military, literally everything is provided for us. If you look at starting pay as more of a stipend than a living expense (food and shelter are already taken care of) the situation isn't the same. However the pay in the gap when that transition from barracks and mess hall to living in town occurs is the one that hits the hardest.
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Sgt (Join to see)
On that last note are you referring to troops who say get married and move out in town and are no longer in the barracks? Or are you referring to troops who get out and are then no longer living in the barracks with a chow hall so the extra expenses are very difficult to deal with?
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Sgt (Join to see)
In the case of vets who get out and then have to live life as a normal adult with only themselves to rely on, wouldn't it then be better if troops were underpaid in comparison to civilians so they have less "spending" money and don't have such, for lack of a better word, extravagant taste for their salary. It would give them a better appreciation for a dollar
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LCDR (Join to see)
Sgt (Join to see) that's actually a very good point.
I have a hard time with this topic and a lot of people disagree with me. There are some pay issues that need to be corrected but my personal opinion is more that we need to reasonably educate our troops about money management. Some of the potential changes with TSP and matching may help with this.
I have a hard time with this topic and a lot of people disagree with me. There are some pay issues that need to be corrected but my personal opinion is more that we need to reasonably educate our troops about money management. Some of the potential changes with TSP and matching may help with this.
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