Posted on Sep 23, 2015
What are your thoughts on the wear of subdued flag on the new uniforms?
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There is a bit of confusion on which flag to wear with the new uniforms. However, ALARACT 85/2015 Paragraph 5 states...
INSIGNIA AND ACCOUTERMENTS WORN ON THE ACU MUST BE OF THE CORRESPONDING CAMOUFLAGES PATTERN COLOR. THE BACKGROUND MATERIAL OF NAME TAPES, SHOULDER SLEEVE INSIGNIA, TABS, GRADE INSIGNIA, FORMER WARTIME SERVICE, AND SEW-ON BADGES WILL MATCH THE CAMOUFLAGE PATTERN OF THE UNIFORM.
So what is your opinion on this?
INSIGNIA AND ACCOUTERMENTS WORN ON THE ACU MUST BE OF THE CORRESPONDING CAMOUFLAGES PATTERN COLOR. THE BACKGROUND MATERIAL OF NAME TAPES, SHOULDER SLEEVE INSIGNIA, TABS, GRADE INSIGNIA, FORMER WARTIME SERVICE, AND SEW-ON BADGES WILL MATCH THE CAMOUFLAGE PATTERN OF THE UNIFORM.
So what is your opinion on this?
Uniforms
OCP
DA Pam 670-1
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 7
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I've always questioned the practice of putting a non-subdued flag on a camouflage uniform. Seems to me that a subdued flag would make more tactical sense. Maybe wearing a full color one in garrison might work.
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SGT David T.
MSG (Join to see) - As I am a civilian employee, the only time we wear uniforms (generally) is on deployments which unless you are in a deployable slots are totally voluntary
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CW2 (Join to see)
no, I do not like the subdued flag, flag code says it must be red white and blue, I have no idea what country the black and white/brown one is. if you wanna be tactical, remove it, its Velcro after all
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The full color American flag is authorized. Even if it isn't clearly stated, the common practice by your chain of command is a good indicator of "the right thing to do". If nothing else, blend in, that way you are all wrong together.
In fact though, I'm not sure if the subdued flag is authorized in garrison. In my state, only if the unit loses a soldier in garrison do we wear the subdued flag and only for a week or so.
In fact though, I'm not sure if the subdued flag is authorized in garrison. In my state, only if the unit loses a soldier in garrison do we wear the subdued flag and only for a week or so.
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It’s the flag of our country and worn with honor. If you want to fight an order at least know the order! A good example of teaching a wrong practice... we were taught in boot camp to stand at attention when the National Anthem plays when in reality you are to stand an place your right hand over your heart. We break rules all the time but you should at least know the rule first!
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I personally would have full color in Garrison, Deployed or in the field it should be the IR subdued patches, I remember in Somalia we were sewing IR patches on the top of our helmets so that our pilots. using NVG's could see / Identify us, remember the ACU's had the IR patches on the arm pockets. it is a tactical tool, when you have NVG and you opposition doesn't.
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If an ALARACT message and AR 670-1 contradict each other, which of the 2 do we stick to?
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SFC (Join to see)
Once upon a time, there was a lonely ALARACT which said you couldn't mix
and match ACU/OCP patches.
ALARACT 086/2015 (which expired 15 MAY 2016) directed G-1 to incorporate
that guidance in DA PAM 670-1 (10 APRIL 2015) NLT 1 JULY 2015.
They did, kind of, on 25 May 2017, but it now only says that the U.S. Army
insignia and the nametape must be of a "camouflage pattern that matches the
uniform." Whereas the ALARACT specified "INSIGNIA AND ACCOUTERMENTS"
(everything) must match, the DA PAM which supersedes the expired ALARACT
only restricts the US ARMY and nametape. There is no such restriction for
unit or combat patches other than they must be "subdued." If you want, I
hear a yellow dry erase marker makes it match.
However, "The wear out date for the UCP ACU is 30 September 2019."
In case you want see what AR 670-1 says about this, here it is: 19-16. g.
"How worn. See DA Pam 670-1."
and match ACU/OCP patches.
ALARACT 086/2015 (which expired 15 MAY 2016) directed G-1 to incorporate
that guidance in DA PAM 670-1 (10 APRIL 2015) NLT 1 JULY 2015.
They did, kind of, on 25 May 2017, but it now only says that the U.S. Army
insignia and the nametape must be of a "camouflage pattern that matches the
uniform." Whereas the ALARACT specified "INSIGNIA AND ACCOUTERMENTS"
(everything) must match, the DA PAM which supersedes the expired ALARACT
only restricts the US ARMY and nametape. There is no such restriction for
unit or combat patches other than they must be "subdued." If you want, I
hear a yellow dry erase marker makes it match.
However, "The wear out date for the UCP ACU is 30 September 2019."
In case you want see what AR 670-1 says about this, here it is: 19-16. g.
"How worn. See DA Pam 670-1."
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MSG (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see) - If argued firmly, one could state that based on the ALARACT and the AR, both flags are authorized and unauthorized at the same time. Something for lawyers, bored GO's and politicians to figure out.
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SSG (Join to see)
ALARACT 086/2015
Pay close attention to line 4.
4. (U) ACU WEAR POLICY. THERE IS NO CHANGE TO CURRENT WEAR POLICY
(AR 670-1) EXCEPT AS NOTED BELOW.
5. (U) INSIGNIA AND ACCOUTERMENTS WORN ON THE ACU MUST BE OF THE
CORRESPONDING CAMOUFLAGES PATTERN COLOR. THE BACKGROUND MATERIAL OF
NAME TAPES, SHOULDER SLEEVE INSIGNIA, TABS, GRADE INSIGNIA, FORMER
WARTIME SERVICE, AND SEW-ON BADGES WILL MATCH THE CAMOUFLAGE PATTERN
OF THE UNIFORM.
How is this still debatable?
The latest AR 670-10 was published 10 April
This ALARACT is dated DTG: R 031736Z JUN 15
Pay close attention to line 4.
4. (U) ACU WEAR POLICY. THERE IS NO CHANGE TO CURRENT WEAR POLICY
(AR 670-1) EXCEPT AS NOTED BELOW.
5. (U) INSIGNIA AND ACCOUTERMENTS WORN ON THE ACU MUST BE OF THE
CORRESPONDING CAMOUFLAGES PATTERN COLOR. THE BACKGROUND MATERIAL OF
NAME TAPES, SHOULDER SLEEVE INSIGNIA, TABS, GRADE INSIGNIA, FORMER
WARTIME SERVICE, AND SEW-ON BADGES WILL MATCH THE CAMOUFLAGE PATTERN
OF THE UNIFORM.
How is this still debatable?
The latest AR 670-10 was published 10 April
This ALARACT is dated DTG: R 031736Z JUN 15
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SSG (Join to see)
The U.S. Flag insignia is a shoulder sleeve insignia correct? In either case I e-mailed HRC about this issue a week ago and still waiting for response.
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SSG (Join to see)
http://www.army.mil/article/156735/Frequently_Asked_Questions__Operational_Camouflage_Pattern_Uniform/ Looks like full color flag after all.
Frequently Asked Questions: Operational Camouflage Pattern Uniform
Since the Army's 1 July 2015 update to PAM 670-1 (Guide to the Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia), Headquarters, Department of the Army has received a number of inquiries from the field; specifically regarding wear guidance for the Operational Camouflage Pattern uniform. In response to these inquiries, the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff, G1 developed a Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) document for dissemination down to the...
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