Posted on Oct 21, 2015
What causes the hatred between POGs and Grunts?
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I understand that blatant stupidity (Admit it, both Grunts and POGs get really STUPID when it comes to this) and just simple ignorance contribute to it. There are a lot more Non-Infantry MOSs than there are Infantry, not to mention the fact that the minority is ALWAYS the vocal one. Most of my experiences with Infantrymen they were absolute raging clowns about their being Infantry. Though I've also noticed this is more common among Junior Enlisted Infantrymen, as well as Infantrymen who haven't deployed. To build off of that, every single person I've met who WAS Infantry at one point and reclassed have been the complete opposite of those raging clowns. I guess I might have answered my own question while filling this out, but I'd still like to see other people's thoughts. And please... If all you have to contribute is, "AT THE PX THEY BOUGHT ALL THE NICE STUFF" or "THIS ONE TIME AT THE COP THEY WERE MEAN TO ME" don't even bother commenting.
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 8
Hatred is the result of ignorance (on both sides).
Combat Arms of all flavors, requires support. You can't take a hill without beans, bullets, and bandaids, or the people who do all the paperwork behind the scenes. Without Combat Arms, those fields would have no need to exist. It's a symbiotic relationship.
Generally at the lower ranks, this turns into a have vs. have not issue though, because training camps have a requirement to be located in (pardon the phrase) crapholes. Infantry needs to be near deserts, mountains, or swamps to train. Non-Infantry, such as the Air Wing or Logistics need to be near Logistically viable locations with "roads" and the ability to move equipment. This in turn means that they have better stuff, just as a matter of practicality. Why put good stuff in a swamp or a desert when you can fly it or truck it in to a perfectly good location.
So the standards of living just end up being "different," and by different I mean better. Oh so much better. And I say this after doing 4 years with an Infantry BN. This doesn't make things "bad." Camp Horno wasn't bad when I was there. It was just in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by mountains. If you were to compare that to mainside or even the wing, we probably probably had nicer barracks.. but their proximity to "civilization" and not having the same optempo & training schedule just makes it seem like a better life.
Combat Arms of all flavors, requires support. You can't take a hill without beans, bullets, and bandaids, or the people who do all the paperwork behind the scenes. Without Combat Arms, those fields would have no need to exist. It's a symbiotic relationship.
Generally at the lower ranks, this turns into a have vs. have not issue though, because training camps have a requirement to be located in (pardon the phrase) crapholes. Infantry needs to be near deserts, mountains, or swamps to train. Non-Infantry, such as the Air Wing or Logistics need to be near Logistically viable locations with "roads" and the ability to move equipment. This in turn means that they have better stuff, just as a matter of practicality. Why put good stuff in a swamp or a desert when you can fly it or truck it in to a perfectly good location.
So the standards of living just end up being "different," and by different I mean better. Oh so much better. And I say this after doing 4 years with an Infantry BN. This doesn't make things "bad." Camp Horno wasn't bad when I was there. It was just in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by mountains. If you were to compare that to mainside or even the wing, we probably probably had nicer barracks.. but their proximity to "civilization" and not having the same optempo & training schedule just makes it seem like a better life.
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MSG (Join to see)
Right on. If it weren't for us ammo guys, the Air Force would be nothing but an un-scheduled airline.
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Grunts are basic folks who live in mud and sling bullets. They eat weird stuff and smell funny. By comparison, POG's are extremely intelligent. They live in the barracks, take showers (sometimes twice a day), dine on lobster tail, and smell like lilacs. Most grunts who lat move into a more... how should I say... "administrative" role, usually have an epiphany: POG's work is hard in its own right.
The Corps is somewhat unique: The over-riding philosophy is developed from OCS or Boot Camp: We're all Marines FIRST. Regardless of the MOS, our mission is unified: To locate, close with, and destroy the enemy. Some just have to do this from behind a monitor. Regardless of MOS, we all support the warfighters. Those who have re-classed just grab onto this concept earlier.
The Corps is somewhat unique: The over-riding philosophy is developed from OCS or Boot Camp: We're all Marines FIRST. Regardless of the MOS, our mission is unified: To locate, close with, and destroy the enemy. Some just have to do this from behind a monitor. Regardless of MOS, we all support the warfighters. Those who have re-classed just grab onto this concept earlier.
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SFC Kevin Bazurto
Agreed Sir! I was an intel Marine first, now am infantry in the Army. I never noticed the divide as much until I was in the infantry. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but wars are won by the boots on the ground. By men willing to give their life for their country, and kill the enemy by fire and close maneuver. All other MOS's are mostly support roles, and are there to support those boots on the ground. Just my take. Semper Fi!
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Capt Mark Strobl
SFC Kevin Bazurto - Great perspective --especially from one who has been both a "POG" (I'm a little guarded to use that term with you, btw) and a grunt.
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SFC Kevin Bazurto
Capt Mark Strobl No worries! I used to hate on the Army as a Marine too, now I understand the simple fact; we are all brothers, and fighting the same fight, just wearing different uniforms... So I just figured since I've been on both sides, one makes me better at being the other. Hopefully...
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Suspended Profile
I like this response the most. My response is based on the typical majority opinion of things & how I’ve been responded to during my service because people have no idea what the fuck they are talking about but everyone likes to think they do. The biggest distinguishable in military capability comes from the civilian world of opinions. Never met someone currently serving willing to disrespect another service member.
It's because their sole existence is to support the Infantry! I'll take it even further every infantry MOS like machine gunners and mortar men exist to support the rifleman. Inside the all volunteer military the guys who sign up for the shittest job (infantry) take a lot of pride in that. The POGs enjoying lording their "superior intellengence" over the "dumb grunts". I've haven't seen that many movies about POGs but their are a lot of movies about the infantry and their special operations cousins. Haters gonna hate!
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SSgt (Join to see)
SPC (Join to see) - Air defense units support the air units which support the infantry. If there was no infantry there would be a vastly military. You would be hard pressed to find a way in which non-infantry units don't somehow support them either directly or indirectly.
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SPC (Join to see)
I'm not entirely sure how Air Defense works outside of the Army, but speaking for Army Air Defense, if it's in it's own unit, it isn't designed to support Infantry. SHORAD units are all outright attached to Infantry Divisions/Brigades. Actual Air Defense Brigades serve almost exclusively in positions to defend from ICBMs. Which aren't threats that Infantry really have to worry about, since if you're going to fire an ICBM, you're aiming for a civilian target. Besides. The last thing an Air Defense unit shot down in terms of air craft were friendly Fighter jets. PATRIOT hasn't scored a single kill on an enemy aircraft, lol. Only friendly. Not something I'd call supporting the air units.
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SSG (Join to see)
The Infantry is on the front lines with the most likely chance of being killed or wounded. Their sole purpose is to find the enemy and engage them in close combat. The "POG" MOS's are called support for a reason. I do understand that without the support the Infantry would not operate as well or at all. But it is usually support getting called a POG, when they say some stupid stuff like "were basically infantry " or "we kick in doors too"....I have caught quite a few in bs war stories trying to convince me that everyone is Infantry.
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I think this rivalry comes more from the infantry side of things. There is a culture of misconception that the grunts are the ones that are on the lines doing battle while the POGs, FOBBITS, REMFS...are "safe" back in behind the wire eating hot chow and playing HALO.
This culture is fed by media portrayal as well. I don't recall seeing many movies about the heroic battles done by support MOSs.
This culture is fed by media portrayal as well. I don't recall seeing many movies about the heroic battles done by support MOSs.
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I didn't see much hatred but we did question why a few POGs got meritorious promotions to Cpl for just typing & pushing paper while we spent so much time out in the field.. But we needed to keep good relations with our POGs so we could get the inside scuttlebutt. And they were usually pretty accurate..
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I'm an Old school grunt.. Never heard of POG until a few years ago. All I got to say is that we needed each other for support. Whether is was for fuel,food,supply or combat support...We had each others back...period. Just a term ! Like SNAFU......laffs......I am sure that are quite a few more terms out their..
I don't think it is hatred Just envy between The rear and the gear...
I don't think it is hatred Just envy between The rear and the gear...
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I was originally the ultimate POG, in the AF as a R&D electronics technician for advanced weapons concepts at the AFRL. I joined the AF with the hopes of being a PJ. Well long story short, bad eyes and blood pressure have dismissed me from joining. I knew I was meant to be a front line fighter, so I switched to the Army and practically begged to be an 11B. With that being said, I have met a lot of individuals from the soft MOS's that talk a big talk and really amp up their MOS. My favorite being "we are all Infantry first". The men I served with in both Iraq and Afghanistan are of a breed most can not and will not understand. I have had soldiers that had masters degrees, from rich families, switched services when the war came along. It is in the blood, I asked a brand new soldier in Iraq that was gunning my truck as we cruised down Irish, "what the f*** did you join the Infantry for?" His response was as pure as it could get "I want to kill people SSG!".
I loved my job in the Infantry and so do most Infantrymen. We looked for the enemy like crackheads looking for crack. I loaded my squad with men like the gunner I spoke of.
So when we see or hear a POG smirk or make some remark, it is easy to look at them like gatherers while we are the hunters.
Like I said, anyone can join the Infantry. I even turned down a $35000 sign on bonus to be a 25S, but how would my soul be if I did.
Today I am finishing my degree in Software Engineering, dislocated collar bone, tore up knees and feeling quite content that I was an Infantryman and I killed bad guys!
I loved my job in the Infantry and so do most Infantrymen. We looked for the enemy like crackheads looking for crack. I loaded my squad with men like the gunner I spoke of.
So when we see or hear a POG smirk or make some remark, it is easy to look at them like gatherers while we are the hunters.
Like I said, anyone can join the Infantry. I even turned down a $35000 sign on bonus to be a 25S, but how would my soul be if I did.
Today I am finishing my degree in Software Engineering, dislocated collar bone, tore up knees and feeling quite content that I was an Infantryman and I killed bad guys!
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It may once again have just been places that I was stationed but I didn't see any hatred between groups.
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