Posted on Jan 15, 2014
What changes would you make to the APFT if given the chance?
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Soldiers have a hard time taking an APFT and making height and weight all because they only are required to take one record APFT within a Fiscal year. Yes, they have to wiegh in twice a year, but what are your thoughts on this? How many times a year do you think we should we take an APFT? If you had to choose the events, what would they be?
APFT
Physical Training
Standards
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 34
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For females, I think pushups should be increased (not by a lot), and their run needs to be increased also.
There is no reason a 20 minute 2-mile should be acceptable as passing in my own opinion.
Of course, the height/weight issue needs to be addressed but that's another problem in itself.
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Us Marines having to take two different fitness tests a year keeps us in check. The physical fitness test during the first half of the year and the combat fitness test during the back half of the year. Plus having to do height/weight verification every promotion picture, resident PME, special duty assignments and checking in and out of units also keeps us in line. You definitely need to be checked more than once a year IMO.
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I think everyone should take a diag APFT at least every quarter, to know where you stand. I have been in my current unit 14 months and have taken 7-8 APFTs for different reasons(SLC,airborne physical,etc) and planning on taking another one this month to see how my pt program is working for me, and it also shows my soldiers that I am there with them when they take it
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CW2 (Join to see)
Outstanding!
As I have witnessed Sgt, in my opinion you are the epitome of what an NCO should be.You continued to motivate and challenge soldiers to be the best.
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Chiming in from the Marine Corps side of the argument; I agree they should be the same. I know that we are similar in the ways that we form units to fight and support the war fighters; and sometimes those support (or rear area) personnel find themselves all alone on the battlefield with no infantry around them. Everyone needs to be able to withstand the rigors of combat and be fit. The enemy does not shoot slower at an old NCO or Warrant Officer just because they are old nor do they give quarter to a female out of courtesy. One standard! Just like most of you I served in a community that had females that were very capable but only required to run a mile and a half while I was required to run 3 miles for my semiannual PFT, although I had to do twice the work for the same perfect score, we competed for the same promotion spots.
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CWO3 Brent Kern
As an after thought, if there is anyone that is dumb enough to doubt a female's ability; take a look at the girls of cross fit. They are amazing examples of fitness and would put many of my Marine brothers to shame. Just sayin.
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PO1 Rudy Lopez
If that is the case then Cross-Fit should be the standard for military Physical Fitness Test and not the current PFT??
As for "the enemy doesn't shoot slower an old NCO or Warrant Officer" comment, you could also argue that in combat you are running no more than 50-100 yards at any given time so what good is a 3 mile run then? Maybe the PRT should be should be 3 miles worth of 50-100 yard sprints?
As for "the enemy doesn't shoot slower an old NCO or Warrant Officer" comment, you could also argue that in combat you are running no more than 50-100 yards at any given time so what good is a 3 mile run then? Maybe the PRT should be should be 3 miles worth of 50-100 yard sprints?
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CWO3 Brent Kern
That is a reason why the Marine Corps implemented the Combat Fitness Test; and I would support some Cross Fit exercises instead if the standard PT tests.
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I'm gonna probably go against the grain here but....no. For many different MOS' there are MANY different physical requirements. I'm sure there is thousands of bored officers and senior NCOs somewhere that would just love to spend the next couple of years coming up with a set standard for all the different MOS'. Now within those MOS' between M/F and different age groups? Yes their should be the same standard. To do the job of a 19D Cavalary Scout (My MOS) the physical requirements of putting removing and cleaning an M242 25mm Bushmaster cannon are the same whether you are male or female; or 19 years to 59. Still weighs 250 lbs no matter who you are.
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1SG (Join to see)
If you're lucky enough to get stuck on the light side of being a 19D you have the opportunity to lug around the javelin and CLU system (50lbs) LRAS3 with accessories (200lbs) your combat load and gear (60lbs depending) 3 clicks to set up a 6 man OP. Why did I want to do this again?
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I retired 3 years ago. 12 years Army, 12 years Air Force. Been through the changes in both for pt. I would eliminate the test as it is. Build an obstacle course that would challenge upper, lower, core and speed and agility. A set number of obstacles to complete. This would be a timed event, no score, pass or fail.
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If I was in charge the sit up would go away ASAP. You don't need a doctorate to know that this exercise is ridiculous.
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- Same standard for males and females. Equal treatment, right?
- Replace situps with another core exercise.
- Add pull ups.
- Replace situps with another core exercise.
- Add pull ups.
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One standard for all and it's pass or fail. I have little use for the APFT score as an evaluation tool when comparing you to others if all of you are graded on different scales. I hold physical fitness in a high regard and I push subordinates to achieve a high level of fitness for the unit and their sake, but to compare people with the score is flawed if the scale is different. I am ok with adding an additional physical test per MOS or duty as well. We use the APFT score to differentiate and rank people and unless they are the same age and gender then we should not be doing that
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Most units I have been in, have administered the APFT quarterly. Beginning in October with a record, January is a diagnostic, April is a record and August is another diagnostic. In my current unit, we take two records per year (October and April). I would not change what we do for the APFT, other than sit-ups. These are the worst exercises. Maybe crunches or V-ups to create less strain on the neck and spine. I know there are some super studs out there who will say "work on your core", but the average Joe/Jane will still crank on their neck to get as many sit ups in as possible.
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Pushups, Situps, Pullups, 2 mile run! More events will give you more understanding of the true fitness of an individual.
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Personally we take an apft once a month in my troop. But only quarterly are they a recorded apft.
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Male and female scores should be closer together. We are supposed to do 20 push ups every day for warm up (or at least I always do). Yet females are required to do that many in 2 minutes. In my opinion, that is to easy.
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Let us go back to the beginning. few people have heard of COL Herman Kelior who is known as the Father of Army Physical Fitness. Their was not an established PT test during the time of COL Kelior's tenure as the Director of Physical Education at West Point. What was important to COL Kelior was over all fitness of the soldier to conduct combat operations.
COL Kelior who was also the Football Coach at West Point, Once said after the Cadets were beaten soundly by Notre Dame; "In combat you must expect the unexpected, if you learned that lesson today then I don't care what the score is."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Koehler
COL Kelior who was also the Football Coach at West Point, Once said after the Cadets were beaten soundly by Notre Dame; "In combat you must expect the unexpected, if you learned that lesson today then I don't care what the score is."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Koehler
Herman Koehler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Herman John Koehler (December 14, 1859 – July 1, 1927)[1][2] was an American football coach, athletics administrator, and United States Army officer. He served as the head football coach at the United States Military Academy from 1897 to 1900, compiling a record of 19–11–3.
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SFC (Join to see) -You know when I put a flower in my hair, they Baker Act me. Unless I smile and then I win the day. ;)
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Suspended Profile
I would change the run to 1.5 miles and add Chin- ups . It definitley should not be MOS specific. It's not like they are asking is to run a marathon!
SGT Jeremy Schlueter
Until you did chin-ups. When my guys failed sit-ups I told them it was because they didn't do enough sit-ups between tests. They didn't fail again. Or are there some extenuating circumstances?
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I think that each quarter the APFT should be taken, this would greatly increase Soldier readiness. As far as events. I think the Army should switch to a 3 -mile run, keep the sit-ups and push-ups, add pull-ups, and possibly some field events, such as buddy carries, running in equipment, carrying objects to and from places, and maneuvering obstacles. Run the standard APFT (run, sit-ups, push-ups, pull-ups) twice a year, and the other two quarters run the filed portion of the APFT. Let me know your thoughts.
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Add pull ups and change the sit ups to crunches. Keep the two mile. 1.5 miles is the best way to measure someones cardiovascular ability but I think the extra 1/2 mile is for heart.
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I like the Marine Corps standard of a 1st class, 2nd class, and 3rd class scoring system. At you age range, the amount it is required to get a first class decreases slightly. So, as you age you can still achieve a first class score. I always have to chuckle at the individuals get a 300+, but cannot finish something like a BN run without falling out.
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I thought the Army was going in the correct direction by making a test based upon job field, but then they switched to adding a supplement to the current test and things started falling apart. The issue is this, there is no one standard. The APFT standard changes by age and gender. This makes it wildly unpredictable at predicting a baseline of any given units actual physical capability. A 50 year old female SGM for example has to perform 34 pushups, 66 situps, and a 17:36 two mile to Max the APFT. How is it right and just to consider that performance (a 300) at the same level as a 30 year old male SGT performing 77 pushups, 82 situps, and 13:18 for the same score? The SGT is physically far more capable so how in any way is the current test standard geared toward a capability to expect any given level of performance? The issue is that the APFT should be in 2 parts. One, a common core minimum for all ages, ranks, and genders for either making or failing the standard (a 1/1/1 assessment). Two, their must be a difference in MOS physical qualifications. For example, all infantry must be able to ruck a x pound pack in x amount of time to be infantry eligible, a artillery soldier must be able to curl x pound bar x times, a medic must be able to drag a x pound dummy, x yards. Stop connecting promotions to PT and weapons quals and make technical and tactical competencies the leading variables. Stop trying to integrate old tools into a new test and pretending its innovative... We as Soldiers have the common sense to know that the APFT is a feel good tool to compare one unit to another on a curved scale.
Please don't interpret this as I'm saying the female NCO is unfit to serve, many can out perform their male counterparts and consistently do. I think the APFT is more of a retention tool than an indicator of physical capability.
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Bullets, mortars, and rockets don't discriminate.
I'll let you all figure out where I stand on this issue.
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I believe that APFT standards are extremely important and crucial to troop readiness. That being said I agree that different MOSs have different criteria. I think there should be a minimum set of age and gender specific standards (like we currently have) with additional elements that address the needs of different MOSs. The best advice I received was never to show up for APFT not prepared to pass. As a nurse officer I can say I never was ill prepared for APFT.
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i know in my units we had to maintain height and weight year round not just yearly or twice a year. if our coc thought that someone looked over weight everyone got weighed and taped. but also some woman cant physically do push ups like a man can, and some men cant run like a woman can so no they shouldnt be the same
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