Posted on Jun 12, 2016
What do you do when a soldier refuses to listen to your directions?
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This is a general question. If you have a soldier who refuses to listen to you, as a non-commissioned officer, do you simply put the incident on paper?
Example given- A soldier has unauthorized sunglasses on in a formation. You tell the soldier to take the sunglasses off. He/she refuses.
On the 4856, do you recommend for UCMJ? I've gone thru 600-20 and cannot find anything regarding this
Example given- A soldier has unauthorized sunglasses on in a formation. You tell the soldier to take the sunglasses off. He/she refuses.
On the 4856, do you recommend for UCMJ? I've gone thru 600-20 and cannot find anything regarding this
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 770
I'm not sure that I have a good answer for your scenario, SSG (Join to see). The last time I dealt with that situation (although it was with a soldier enroute to the motor pool, not in formation), the outcome included getting 2 of my teeth reattached (after a dental assistant policed them off the basement floor) and UCMJ action being initiated (in the form of a summary court martial). I'm assuming you're looking for a happier ending than that.
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AR670-1 covers sunglasses. Reference the paragraph in your counseling. It does so it is commanders discretion as to whether or not they can be worn in formation so I would verify that the commander does not authorize it. Once I have those facts I would bring the soldier in and explain it in detail in the counseling and inform the soldier that sunglasses ARE authorized just NOT in your company's or platoons formation. I would also inform the soldier that you gave him or her a lawful order according to regulations and order of the commander and that failing to follow an order in the manner he or she did is blatantly disrespectful and as such I would recommend UCMJ 7 days
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SSG Robert White
Prior to the constant updating of the regulations, AR 670-1 stated the MACOM commander was the one responsible for setting of the Uniform of the Day. This was delegated from the Chief of Staff of the Army. It CAN NOT be delegated below the MACOM commander. Thus, BDE, BN, REGT, CO, PLT commanders do not have the discretion to change the MACOM commanders orders. It is the impression by all officers I've served with that they had this authority. When I pointed it out to them, I was considered a trouble maker. I offered to have the issue taken to the MACOM commander office and let the chips fall where they may. Every office backed down.
To many people assume they know what the regs are when in fact they don't.
To many people assume they know what the regs are when in fact they don't.
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SPC Franklin McKown
THAT'S because it was HANDLED by the squad leader.IF it reaches YOUR desk that's a systemic breakdown. LAST thing any scout wants is TOP looking for work.Although I wouldn't last a week in today's army with drinking and fighting as Intoxication CQB training.
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After reading a bunch of these answers, I see that I agree with the major point, the insubordination must not be allowed to continue. But HOW you handle it is very important. The person must be made to understand that anything and everything that happens to them is THEIR fault. Like "I hate to make you run 5 gabillion miles with an aircraft carrier on your back towing a convoy of tanks, but you chose this path."
Now the main thing all leaders have to understand is that at some point you must give up on the underling and get rid of them. This is probably what they want so make sure it is as painful as possible for them.
Oh, and instead of stomping on the sunglasses, just take them and "hold onto them" for the soldier until they are on liberty. Make sure everyone knows you are doing them a favor since obviously they had nowhere to safely keep those sunglasses. You are just keeping them out of trouble with even higher ups by putting them in a safe place.
Now the main thing all leaders have to understand is that at some point you must give up on the underling and get rid of them. This is probably what they want so make sure it is as painful as possible for them.
Oh, and instead of stomping on the sunglasses, just take them and "hold onto them" for the soldier until they are on liberty. Make sure everyone knows you are doing them a favor since obviously they had nowhere to safely keep those sunglasses. You are just keeping them out of trouble with even higher ups by putting them in a safe place.
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Sgt Bruce C.
Do not damage someone else property. After formation or drill or whatever your doing, pull the young man or women off to the side or into an office and have another NCO there and have a talk. Let them know that they must follow the rules and that there are dire consequences to not following them. If that doesn't work, then the consequence will follow and everything by the book and hang their ass
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MSgt Bill Loveli
I never had this problem as I was never in a position to order soldiers to do anything.
My Marines never hesitated to comply with orders and directions
My Marines never hesitated to comply with orders and directions
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Sgt Bruce C.
MSgt James Ingersoll, I am a retired Air Traffic Control after 33 years of government service.
I never said let him continue wearing the glasses, I said "don't damage his property". let me say a bit more, I made this comment to another who said remove them and step on them, I don't care if they are $5 or $100+ glasses, they are someone else property and their property should be respected, the same as you want this person to respect his uniform and how it should be worn. Never once did I say let someone break a reg.
I never said let him continue wearing the glasses, I said "don't damage his property". let me say a bit more, I made this comment to another who said remove them and step on them, I don't care if they are $5 or $100+ glasses, they are someone else property and their property should be respected, the same as you want this person to respect his uniform and how it should be worn. Never once did I say let someone break a reg.
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In my day the glasses would have been history, then he would get every "shit" job I would think of. Not to mention the fun he'd have on restriction, extra duty, loss of pay for 60 days as well as a reduction in rate.
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I don't know anything about the way the Army, or even the Marines, to be truthful, handle this kind of thing nowadays. When I was an AD Jarhead, this kind of stuff NEVER happened. At least it never happened in any unit I served in and I never even heard of it happening when I served (1977 - 1990). I think the fact that this question is even posted, if just theoretically, shows what has happened to not only our military but our nation thanks to political correctness as a whole (or would that be A hole, as in all common sense is being swallowed up by it). When I was an E1 through E-3, NCOs were NOBODY you'd mess with and SNCOs were almost God-like. Officers were a whole other level, as in saying, "By your leave, sir..." and awaiting the response, before walking past one. One time I said it when approaching one and just kind of took for granted he'd say, "Granted.", like they always did but this guy must have been testing a theory or had a bet or something and didn't answer. To be honest, it didn't register and I kept going. When he said in a louder than normal voice, "Corporal!", I stopped and turned to see a Brigadier standing there. To be honest, I thought I was going to soil myself. But he quietly talked to me, asking if I understood why the Corps had such traditions and what they represented. He could have read me the riot act but instead took time to explain why he stopped me and what the tradition was for, besides Enlisted Personnel just showing respect to Officers. It may sound corny but as a 20 year old Lance Corporal it impressed me that a General cared enough about the Corps, it's traditions and, most importantly, it's Marines to take the time to do that with/for me. When I entered boot camp, they (the Marine Corps) were super vigilant about D.I.s not being allowed to hit recruits, even if it was just a head-slap on the back of your head. But they were still allowed to swear. When I got off the bus that first night I heard cuss words I didn't know existed. I was scared sh*tless! Those Drill Instructors sounded, looked and acted like they couldn't wait to get you alone so they could kick your skinny little a** all over the Grinder. The one that was yelling at me looked like he could have done it to the whole bus of us "used-to-be-a-second-ago-civilians" who were now in "a world of sh*t, I sh*t you not!!!" recruits. He had muscles in his neck where I just had an Adam's Apple. And his bright crimson face contrasted well with the mustard yellow of many of the recruit's faces to put the Corps' Colors on human display! If I hadn't been so terrified I would have been extremely motivated! Of course, this is all just my honest opinion. My point is I would have NEVER thought of disobeying an order and I can't imagine Marines today would either unless they thought it was an illegal order. If you don't have obedience and discipline in the military then you just have a mob and we all have seen what mobs do on TV in the last couple of years if not controlled by someone like the police. And, sure enough for me, about half-way through Third Phase my Platoon's youngest D.I., a Corporal, blew a gasket and decked me with a punch to the chest. As I lay there gasping for breath I could actually see the panic in his face as he realized what he had done. Of course if I reported it his career probably would have been over. But truth be told, my brother used to hit me MUCH harder and I have this fault I've had since I was a kid and the Corps only worsened it: loyalty. Semper Fi.
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what does your 1st Sgt. say about the matter?
if all else fails, then take him behind the woodshed and get his attention...you’re
an NCO, improvise!
if all else fails, then take him behind the woodshed and get his attention...you’re
an NCO, improvise!
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Cpl Benjamin Long
yeah until you do that to the CID undercover agent that has been inserted to bust you, because you made a habit of that
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