Posted on Jun 12, 2016
SSG Emergency Action Controller / Ops Nco
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This is a general question. If you have a soldier who refuses to listen to you, as a non-commissioned officer, do you simply put the incident on paper?

Example given- A soldier has unauthorized sunglasses on in a formation. You tell the soldier to take the sunglasses off. He/she refuses.


On the 4856, do you recommend for UCMJ? I've gone thru 600-20 and cannot find anything regarding this
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Responses: 770
SGT Walter Stewart
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Oh come on this is the most stupid question I have seen yet. If a enlisted man or woman refuses a LAWFUL order by a rank higher then them. It follows Under USMJ or Article 15. Even Court Marshal. We are all taught at Basic Training to follow orders and also trained in how to follow orders.
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SFC Cavalry Scout
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You throat punch that ass hat. I never had a Soldier refuse a lawful order from me. I had one kid that had a tongue piercing. I told squad leader to have him remove it. The squad leader told me the kid refused. We I called that little shit to my office and we had a little chat. He removed it promptly out of his mouth. You don't need to be a dick to get your Soilders to the right thing. They just need good leadership and an occasional ass chewing when the screw up
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SPC Korey Kilburn
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Drop him on the spot. Set an example. If he still refuses, that's a violation of a direct order, refer to 1SG for possible Ariticle 15, confinement to barracks and forfeiture of pay. I bet he doesn't make the mistake again after that and if so continue Articles 15 until he does get it or you then Chapter for failure to adapt.
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TSgt Steven Summerlin
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Forgo the paperwork on first violation, but never pass up the opportunity to set an example. As he is your charge, uniform correction is your responsibility. Reread that last statement and allow it to sink in. Failure to understand this is likely what prompted this line of questioning. Are we clear on responsibilities and duties now? Good, let's move on then. This soldiers refusal to perform as directed does not relieve you from your duty. Take the action of removing the offending article for him, if he is unwilling or unable to do so himself. Correct the violation. If the situition warrants, either render the item unusable, or announce confiscation. If the soldier become violent, put him at a disadvantage through whatever means necessary and turn him over to the MPs. Example will be made either way. Running to do paperwork without first correcting the situation will reflect poorly on your own understanding of the charge of a NCO.
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PO2 Aviation Electrician's Mate (Ae)
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The only way he can get away with it is if he just had some sort of optometry appointment where they specifically instructed him to wear sunglasses for X amount of time, in which case he needs some form of chit or "doctors note," but otherwise: article 91 his ass.
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SSG Grant Hansen
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It happened to me one night just before deploying to Iraq.

A new E-5 came back to the barracks drunk as hell and started physically abusing a young E-3. At the time, I was also an E-5, but I had a few years in rank while he had less than a month. I was also the Asst Sqd Ldr, so both in terms of seniority and position, I was his superior.

He refused to leave the PFCs room, despite several orders to do so claiming that he didn't have to do anything I said since he was also an E-5.

I went don the hall and got an E-6 out of bed. The E-6 ordered him out of the room and escorted him back to his room.

The next morning, the CO walkind into his room, litterally dumped him out of his rack, chewed his ass and told him he had 5 minutes to report to his office.

It couldn't have been 30 minutes later that he walked out to formation with SPC rank and fell into a new platoon. Everyone in the company knew what he had done and why he was demoted. It took the wind out of his sails, that's for sure.

Later that day he came and apologized to me, which is a totally classy move on his part. He realized after he sobered up that I was trying to protect him from himself and if he had done what I ordered him to do he might still have been a Sgt.

A couple months after we got back, he got promoted again, but he was a LOT more humble about his rank.

Bottom line, if a soldier won't obey an order while in garrison, you move the offense up the line and let UCMJ do it's thing. It's a MUCH more effective method of solving the problem than punishing everyone for one jackass' BS.
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SGT James Tridle
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I as a SGT would do a counciling state and keep paper in my desk. Let him or her read the reg on it explain it and see if he or her listen by watching their actions. If no improvement then time mark it on paper.
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SFC Lionel Bascombe
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I will like to do what SFC Boyd said; that is the way it was done when we were younger Soldiers. However, our Army system today will get us in more trouble that it will the Soldier. The NCO who attempt to crush a Soldier's glasses may end up paying for it or be reprimanded. Soldiers now have all these rules, JAG, and Commissioned officers on their side. It is pitiful how much power we as NCOs' have lost. The most I have seen done with issues like these are continuous 4856s (and you must ensure that the counseling is done by the book, all "t's" crossed and "i's" dotted) until you can build a counseling package large enough with enough substantial evidence to get the Soldier disciplined or kicked out of the Army. I dislike this system because it is hard to retrain the Soldier. I have seen trouble-Soldiers reformed into excellent NCOs with relative disciplining. The way we were disciplined back then. When I say this to some NCOs and Officers today, they respond with “that was back in your time, this is a new generation.” We need to fix this from the NCO Corp starting at the top. This may be a challenge since many young NCOs today are now part of the “now generation.” I am all for flexibility and transformation, however, how much are we willing to give up in order to accommodate indiscipline in this man’s fine Army?
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SPC Kevin Ford
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Hmm, thing's must have changed since I was in as a low ranking enlisted. I wouldn't have thought directly disobeying a direct order right to an NCO's face was in my best interest...
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SSG Kimberly Hunter
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Here is my suggestion, do not be quick to use UCMJ action. First of all you can not just recommend such actions without a lengthy paper trail done correctly. You are the leader, be the leader. Don't be their friend but you need to motivate soldiers with rewards and discipline. Take care of your soldiers (train them, educate them, assist them to take care of their personal issues i.e. Pay, college, promotions) you will earn their trust and respect. A soldier you instill this in will follow you any where and do what you tell them. Don't ask a soldier to do something, you tell them. You have the power for corrective action besides paper and pen. Be creative and this might require some of your personal time to take their personal time. A soldier is only as good a soldier as good leader. Soldiers are a reflection of leadership. Be a better leader.
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