Posted on Jun 12, 2016
SSG Emergency Action Controller / Ops Nco
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This is a general question. If you have a soldier who refuses to listen to you, as a non-commissioned officer, do you simply put the incident on paper?

Example given- A soldier has unauthorized sunglasses on in a formation. You tell the soldier to take the sunglasses off. He/she refuses.


On the 4856, do you recommend for UCMJ? I've gone thru 600-20 and cannot find anything regarding this
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SSG Motor Transport Operator
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I've never had a Soldier that refused to listen to clear cut instructions, but all you have to do is start putting it on black and white and leave paper trail that will eventually lead to a pattern of misconduct which will lead to chapter. Or you can push for Article 15 instead of ending a career. Soldiers do not like their free time or money taken.
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Cpl Gustave Mire
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Embrass the mob mentality. Won't take sunglasses off run the whole damn formation. Do that enough and your guys will handle it for you. Before anyone judges I am not condoning for a soap and pillow case party back at the barracks room but when he or she sees the looks on the others face and most likely a few verbal slangs thrown their way most likely they will straighten up because they know at the end of the road they heading down there is soap and pillow cases. Also even a sb has friends in a platoon they may stop acting an ass just so they don't screw over them.
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MCPO Ron ODonnell
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as a retired E-9 I would if set the example immediately..njp or what ever..they are not in a democracy..that seems to get lost these days..take off ur friggen sun glasses now!!!
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PO3 James Bobiney
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It happened to me once. I was a Specialist in charge of a small detail touching up bumper numbers in the motorpool. Our platoon(maintenance) was always short of NCOs and as a result platoon Sgt would always put me in with our small bunch of NCOs because I was one of the older ones in the platoon(23). I eventually got appointed to Cpl(with no paperwork ever done). I talk about that on my profile page.
But none the less, we had a young Pvt who hated the Army, hated everybody and hated himself I think. Eventually got chaptered out. He didn't want to help, AT ALL. How fuckin hard is it painting bumpers? I mean come on. Anyway, I sent him back to the barracks, told him to stay in his room til last formation(of which he never went). Then told my platoon Sgt. He'd had a history of this type of insubordination and my incident with him was apparently the straw that broke the Camels back. The chapter paperwork started the next day.
Now don't get me wrong, I was about to hem this guy up. I really wanted to. But I was only a Spc and didn't know if there would be any ramifications because of me not being an NCO. So that is why I took the action I did. But apparently it was correct in the commands eyes because it led to him being booted out. We don't need people like that in the Army or military period.
When I was in the Navy Res as a PO3 I, we actually as a whole unit, never had any problems with anyone, and we were in a Marine/Navy Reserve Center. Oh man I loved being a Corpsman in a Marine unit. But that's another story. Anyway, that's just my two bits on a soldier not listening to me. The whole, "you're not an NCO I don't have to listen to you" thing. lol
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SPC Kenneth Koerperich
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Refuse an NCO back in the day, you got dropped right there. Our NCO's were Vietnam Vets & not of above "laying of hands". Only after our 2nd year did the PCness kick in & paper start being used. Way to many "butthurts" complaining up the chain about "perceived" abuses.
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1SG Ken Gillespie
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Put it in a counseling statement, Give them extra training, if the trend continues document it and send paperwork up the chain for 1SG/Commander to take action.
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PVT Vance Hanna
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Take the Solider Aside privately, and explain to them that you would rather not have to Recommend for UCMJ over something as silly as unauthorized sunglasses and that they should consider this conversation as their warning, If however they persist in behavior that you have informed them about, you WILL recommend for UCMJ. Then say Look, do you really want to lose half a months pay and be placed on restriction over some sunglasses, then tell them the choice is theirs.

If this corrects the behavior, let it go at that, if it does not, Article 15 their ass every time they disobey from that point forward. Some people are slow learners.
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CSM Kim Thomas Michalowski, CSM (R)
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I like the idea of smacking them off his face and crushing them with my foot. Better yet, command Pugil Pit now and smack them off his face with a good butt stroke to the head.
I retired 10 yrs ago and am saddened as I read where our Army has been led and diminished by current powers in Washington.
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SSG Robert White
SSG Robert White
>1 y
I'm glad you retired. Heck, you should have gotten out after your first term. Violence isn't the answer. From what you state here, you never learned anything as a NCO. You should read 1SG Fairchilds posting.
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SPC Jill Drushal, RN, MA
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Playing devil's advocate, I must say you have to be REALLY careful enforcing your example, SGT Hamilton. I've seen this happen (not to me). A soldier gets new PRESCRIPTION glasses and they have photo grey or Transitions lenses. An NCO tells the soldier to remove his "sunglasses." The soldier says they are prescription glasses and shows the prescription. The NCO takes the soldier inside to watch the lens tint lighten up. With the old-type photo grey lenses, this could take 10-15 minutes or more. With the new Transitions technology, the tint usually disappears within five minutes. Additionally, Ray Ban, Oakley and other makers of high-end sunglasses also make prescription frames. My point is that you don't want to have to replace a pair of expensive prescription glasses because you destroyed your soldier's glasses. . . My current glasses cost over $500 because they have progressive lenses. I also have some photophobia as a medication side effect, so I have Transitions lenses. When I was on active duty, I carried my prescription in my wallet. Nobody ever questioned my tinted glasses, even when I got new ones because my prescription changed. . . Just sayin', be careful.
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SSG Nick Tramontano
SSG Nick Tramontano
>1 y
The main issue with that is if the glasses are civilian and not military issue, do they conform to AR670-1 ?
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SPC Jill Drushal, RN, MA
SPC Jill Drushal, RN, MA
>1 y
Exactly. . . Military issue eyeglasses are not popular among most soldiers. Therefore, they choose to wear civilian glasses. According to AR 670-1, "Conservative civilian prescription eyeglasses are authorized for wear with all uniforms." Glasses cannot be trendy, attached to a cord or other restraint device (unless for safety purposes) or detract from the uniform. Additionally, sunglasses may not be worn in the field unless authorized by commanders for high-glare environments. . . Considering SGT Hamilton's example, the soldier should be counseled for insubordination, but (possibly) not for the glasses themselves. That is an issue for the chain-of-command. The soldier refused to remove the sunglasses when SGT Hamilton told him to, but didn't explain himself. So, the platoon sergeant and/or platoon leader need to get involved. No success there, keep going. . . Although this started as an issue about AR 670-1, it quickly became an issue of insubordination. Counseling statement (and Article 15) for violation of AR 670-1, POSSIBLY. Article 15 for insubordination, MOST DEFINITELY.
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Sgt Arthur Cuelho
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You could just take them off his face, but be ready for him to throw a punch and deal with him. Mr Sunglasses could be doing every shit job in world, Mr Sunglasses room is constantly failing Inspection, Mr Sunglasses platoon is constantly getting the short end and make sure they are aware as to why.

Or just do paper on him, take some stripes and get him kicked out. Because if you don't get rid of him or solve the problem another way his attitude is going to spread.
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SGT Dennis Bolin
SGT Dennis Bolin
>1 y
YOU go boy
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