Posted on Jun 12, 2016
What do you do when a soldier refuses to listen to your directions?
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This is a general question. If you have a soldier who refuses to listen to you, as a non-commissioned officer, do you simply put the incident on paper?
Example given- A soldier has unauthorized sunglasses on in a formation. You tell the soldier to take the sunglasses off. He/she refuses.
On the 4856, do you recommend for UCMJ? I've gone thru 600-20 and cannot find anything regarding this
Example given- A soldier has unauthorized sunglasses on in a formation. You tell the soldier to take the sunglasses off. He/she refuses.
On the 4856, do you recommend for UCMJ? I've gone thru 600-20 and cannot find anything regarding this
SGT
Squad Leader
Discipline
Team Leader
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 770
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You make their life hell.... No seriously, you figure out where the communication breakdown is occurring, then take it from there.
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SSG (Join to see)
I'm sure it's a personal thing maybe something goin on at home, looking for attention.
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SGT Jeffrey Dennis
Staff Sgt., the Army is his home. If he has personal problems he can stand at parade rest and respectfully ask his squad leader for permission to see the chaplain. Or, just say "Staff Sergeant, I'm having some problems with my wife, can I speak to you offline". I have never had a problem that my NCOs wouldn't fix.
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Sgt Joseph Baker
Man, it has to be hard to be an NCO in the Army. All that worrying about whether a troops private life is making him disobey orders or look for attention. Exhausting. Not that the Corps doesn't care about your personal problems, but your personal problems are not viewed as an excuse to disobey an order. I attended my son's graduation at relaxin' Fort Jackson, and I noted that as soon as the troops were released, they were all about how to get around this regulation or that, and unbuttoning their uniform blouse and wadding up their beret and leaving is sticking half way out of their trouser pockets, I could go on for hours. It seemed they wanted to look like anything but soldiers. Thank God my son acted like he took it seriously. Of course he knew his Marine father would expect him to be squared away. Is that a rampant disease in recruits today? When my platoon graduated boot camp in Jan. 1985, we were all about looking and acting like Marines. We had gone through hell to get that title and we wanting to be the most square-away looking Marines possible. We wore those EGA emblems on our collars like they were the Hope Diamond! There was a crowd of families there and we were not going to let them down by acting like goof balls. We all wanted to look just like the Marines on the posters. The reaction of the guests was like shock and awe. Seeing how their goofy 18 years old sons had become rock-hard, ramrod-straight, square-jawed, steely-eyed Marines with uniforms that were perfect and were worn proudly and perfectly really made an impression.
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My first thought would be to take his ass to the wood line and make him pay by pain and repetition! Since that can't happen in today's Army, I would let the whole squad know tomorrow's pt session will be long! I had this problem as a SPC I was put in charge of 4 pvts that did not like to listen and lack basic soldier discipline.. I cleared it through my PSG and the next day was painful for them. After PT I made it clear as I had one guy in tears that if you ever disobey again this type of PT will happen more often. RLTW!
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PO3 Steven Adams
I'm in the same mode your in one disrespects me the whole squad gets shit they will handle those small bs problems were a unit
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Many of you know how I love anecdotes. When I came aboard my first submarine as an E-3, I asked where my bedding was. The COB (Chief of the Boat) asked me why I need them, you don't have a bunk. The same COB (SOB to most of us junior enlisteds) walked up behind me while on fire watch, listening to my brand new transistor radio using ear buds (or what ever we called them at that time), he said absolutely nothing but ripped them out of my ears and tossed my new radio, then walked away saying nothinhg. Do you suppose I had anything to say after that? Tough lesson, but learned lesson. BTW, the guy was a huge knuckle dragger Torpedoman. That is the way discipline used to work, and work well it did.
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Office hours, take a rank, reduce pay, restrict to barracks, shitty performance review. Rinse and repeat until he cycles out or is dismissed from service, then he gets a shitty General discharge. Only seen this happen once but they hustled his ass out, no need or room for him, but they stuck it to him until he was discharged.
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The corrective action used to be called wall to wall counseling back in the day! Lol
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The standard is immediate, intelligent obedience. I'd ask "why not?" If the answer doesn't fall into the category of intelligent (there's a damn good reason), write him up.
In my opinion, direct refusal of an order without good reason should go to field grade NJP in formation on the parade deck, with the entire command present. The knot head should get max'd out. If he refuses NJP, jump right to a special court martial and bounce his ass.
In my opinion, direct refusal of an order without good reason should go to field grade NJP in formation on the parade deck, with the entire command present. The knot head should get max'd out. If he refuses NJP, jump right to a special court martial and bounce his ass.
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Depending on the soldier, it honestly varied. My trouble makers, I was roughshod on. Always started by explaining, why it had to be done, other than top says so. if they still refused it would escalate, unfortunately.
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In 2000, I was deployed to Kuwait. We were port dawgs and worked out of Kuwait Int'l. We were getting a pallet of cargo ready to go on a C-130. I noticed that it seemed to high (maximum height on a pallet for a C-130 was 96") So I asked the airman to measure it. He blew me off and said it would fit. Well, he didn't measure it and guess what, it was two inches too high. I didn't get mad, I just told the airman to take the pallet back to the yard and break it down until it was 96 inches tall. I told him I didn't get my stripes (E-7) out of a cracker jack box. So when I tell you to measure a pallet then I'm doing for good reason." Well he took the straps off the pallet and broke down the pallet until he had the right height. We loaded the cargo and I think he was a little bit humbled for the experience. He was an A1C (E-3) with about 3 years in service. I was a MSgt (E-7) with 18 years in service and about a dozen deployments be hind me. The one thing that was a problem was that I was a reservist and he was active duty. Over the years I met many active duty who discounted our knowledge and professionalism just because we were reservists. Of course I met many who were just the opposite. We were on an exercise called Patriot Partner where the active duty guys told us, "We'll go to war with you guys any time anywhere."
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Great question. I can only speak from back in the day but, You would never think of disobeying an order. I cant tell you how many times I got pulled in and got pushed around, literally. Into lockers the floor. You didn't dare refuse anything if you knew whats good for you.
Now days I can't really wrap my head around how soft the new military has gotten. I've heard that now you can even ask for a "time out" !!!!!!!!!!!!! A time out!!!! what the hell , these people aren't6 yrs old and have to sit in the corner...... or are they???? I dont have a good answer for you because we never had that problem when I was in...... good luck
Now days I can't really wrap my head around how soft the new military has gotten. I've heard that now you can even ask for a "time out" !!!!!!!!!!!!! A time out!!!! what the hell , these people aren't6 yrs old and have to sit in the corner...... or are they???? I dont have a good answer for you because we never had that problem when I was in...... good luck
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1. Yes you counsel them, not for listening, but for "not following orders". 2. I normally had some weekend "school of the soldier" during the month- they were offered either the ART-15 or the school. Most didn't want to lose the money.
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