Posted on Feb 7, 2015
What do you "Honestly" think about women attending Ranger School?
236K
1.43K
750
93
89
4
Myself and hundreds of other Retired Rangers are tired of all this nonsense of women attending Ranger School. Why is the Army leadership encouraging special preference to attend a premier infantry and leadership school. It is a hard journey for qualified Male Infantrymen to compete for and get an extremely limited slot to attend the Ranger Course. Many of Rangers had to prove themselves to be hardened Infantry Sergeants in order to even be considered to attend the local Pre-Ranger Course, before even thinking of attending The Ranger Course. Normally an Infantry Company and/or Battalion could only send "one" representative soldier to the Pre-Ranger Course (per course). Infantry Soldiers competed amongst each other to get that slot. The 21-day Pre-Ranger Course, was definitely tough as or tougher than Ranger School itself, was hell to get through. And even after passing, was not a guaranteed slot to attend The Ranger Course due to budget, deployment, and training issues for the unit (not the individual soldier). If you did not get the opportunity to attend The Ranger Course within six months, well it was a requirement to attend the local Division 21-day Pre-Ranger (assessment) Course again. Once again, the male soldier had to pass all standards in order to be recommended to attend The Ranger Course. The Ranger Course had the toughest standards. To begin day one of the Ranger Course, during the APFT, the Ranger Instructor (RI) would not allow you to pass the push up or sit up event the first time. Every Male Ranger Student failed the push up event and had to perform the push up event a second time (five to ten minutes later) to Standard! My first attempt at the push up event, we had to complete at least 62 push ups. The RI was counting, 59, 60, 61, 61, 61... and so on. We were warned that we could not stop during the two minute event or else we would be considered a failure at this event. So I kept knocking out the push ups and asked the RI what it was that I was doing wrong. He answered with, shut up Ranger and keep knocking them (push ups) out or you will fail. I kept my mouth shut and knocked out approximately 120 push ups. The RI failed me. I got back in line and had the same RI grade my push ups again about ten minutes later. 59, 60, 61, 61, 61, once again I asked what it was I was doing wrong while I cranked out those push ups, and once again the RI stated shut up Ranger and keep knocking them out or else you will fail. That was the first moments of Ranger School and every standard was just as tough. If you were just there to earn your Tab, you were surely going to drop out of the course. But if you were a fully prepared Infantry Stud with the attitude that you attended the Ranger Course to test yourself and understood that you were going to have to push beyond all personal limitations in order to merely make it through the relentless day of Ranger Training. The one thing I really appreciated about Ranger School is that the Standards were set so high, every Infantry Soldier knew it was the very best training and test that any soldier can volunteer for. When finished, with an average of one hour of sleep per day, moving with heavy (very heavy) loads about 10 to 25 kilometers per day, performing tactical maneuvers, and being graded in leadership positions. It was far more harsh than I ever expected, every bit the hardest single accomplishment as far as physical and mental exhaustion in a training environment is concerned. Even for the most hardened and gruesome Infantryman. Ranger School was no joke. I'm not thinking it is at all a place for females. There is no way possible to keep the standards the same. We were not taken back to the rear with the gear to shower when we smelled. That is what Infantrymen do. It is dirty and frankly stinky, to say the least. I eventually became an RI in the Desert Phase and then later in my career a Senior Ranger Instructor in the Mountain Phase. It was a humbling experience serving with top notch soldiers / world class athlete Rangers. To say the least it was an Honor serving with the Ranger Training Brigade and maintain the standards. Let us not lose that, the standards. Let us not add the nonsense of preferential treatment. The RI's were hard as nails but fair. Let us not give away the farm to break the glass ceiling. You will rarely hear any news of Rangers in action, it is a quiet professional tight knit unit that prides itself on operational security. I can see no way to not change the standards once women attend the Ranger Course. This course will become a political agenda which will cause the truly dedicated Ranger Instructors to lose their jobs as RI's as we once knew it. Is it too late to turn back? Let the nonsense begin, female issues, separate but same, political agenda, media scrutiny, RI unfairness, sexual harassment, preferential treatment, male students No-Go's due to (female) not performing to standards during patrols... The list can go on, just ask any RI that has served a full term as an Ranger Instructor. Let us not forget the original intent for this course is to train men to lead soldiers into combat. When we give these limited (Ranger School) slots to female soldiers/officers, then we take away from the Infantryman, the soldiers themselves, and the Infantry Units. Let us not take this away.
Retired Ranger 1SG David D. Lopez
Paso Robles, CA
Retired Ranger 1SG David D. Lopez
Paso Robles, CA
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 240
I really don’t care. I know my daughter is considering it, after her basic course.
(0)
(0)
Not all men and women are created equal. I have met men that I can out pt and out march any day. There are plenty of women that can out do me. Of course there are plenty of men that can out do me to. But I will break it down. When I was young and in the military I qualified on my pt test with around 110 push-ups every time. Sit ups were a breeze (that is where women shine in strength) they were over 100 every pt test and my 2 mile was my hardest and worst number @ around 11 min. But i was able to qualify for my EFMB with 70 lbs on by back and I actually broke my foot about 2k into the march! I kept going and just pooped a Motrin every 3 or 4K and finished my 20k well under time and realized that I had actually broken my foot when I took my boot off. As far as showers go. When I went to Saudi I was not able to go back to to the rear to shower for 2 weeks. I stank but hey, I made it, as far as female "issues" most of today's birth control stops women from having those monthly visits. Sexual harassment is going to be an issue everywhere if the men can't control themselves. I would hope that the discipline that is required of the mission of the rangers would also give them the discipline to not harass a member of their team. If they harass a part of their team they they are the ones not fit to be a ranger.
I was not one that would have ever wanted to be a Ranger. But I have met females that were actually the type that would be just right. And if you think about it females could add a different element to the team that could improve the mission.
I was not one that would have ever wanted to be a Ranger. But I have met females that were actually the type that would be just right. And if you think about it females could add a different element to the team that could improve the mission.
(0)
(0)
I think that anyone who can carry the loaded pack that I have seen in videos of Ranger training should be given the chance to complete the training. Ranger school is SUPPOSED TO BE HARD, because the people who EARN that patch on their uniforms are supposed to be the best of those who tried to complete the course of instruction.
I also think that making special slots for certain people to attend ANY course diminishes the meaning of that course, whether it be truck driver, or ditch digger, or Ranger school. Not everyone CAN complete specialized schools - that's why the SEALs have Hell Week - and the pre-training that prepares the students for that testing phase of that Special Forces Schooling.
I also think that making special slots for certain people to attend ANY course diminishes the meaning of that course, whether it be truck driver, or ditch digger, or Ranger school. Not everyone CAN complete specialized schools - that's why the SEALs have Hell Week - and the pre-training that prepares the students for that testing phase of that Special Forces Schooling.
(0)
(0)
Very good points covered here. The PC people are trying to make everyone "equal" by having everyone attend "check the box" training. All of us are not equal in all ways. Ranger and Special Forces (Green Beret and SEALs) training slots should be allotted to those who can pass the pre-testing.
(0)
(0)
When I hear this crap about the women slots taking away from all those poor deserving male soldiers, I say give me a fucking break. How many women have gone to ranger school so far? A couple of dozen or so? And THAT's the reason poor Joe Snuffy can't get a slot. Here's a better idea. If the graduation rate is still around 50% overall (I don't know the latest stats) how about tell all those units with all the studs to quit giving their slots away to unprepared soldiers who bolo out the first week, mainly due to PT reasons. Yeah, weed those people out at the units, and there would be Ranger School slots out the ass for those those who are truly prepared to meet the standards, male or female.
But they aren't weeded out. And that's exactly the issue. If you're a male, you can apply for and receive a slot at Ranger School. Nobody says "nope, you can't go, because you're a male.' Nobody says ahead of time, without any consideration of your own personal fitness, drive, motivation and skills that you are unqualified to go to Ranger School. Just because you are a male.
But until very recently, if you were a female, you were excluded from the Army's best leadership school just because you were a female. If you were a PLT LDR in an MI battalion, your male counterparts in the same jobs could go, (and fail) but you couldn't even apply. So it didn't matter if you could run circles around your fellow male platoon leaders, or read a map way better than them, or whatever. You didn't get a chance to try, but they did. And so off they go, failing by the hundreds if not thousands a year, while you are told you "don't have what it takes". All those failures get the chance to see if they have what it takes or not, but the female soldier is simply assumed to not have what it takes.
As the CG of Ft Benning said (who was a former SFOD-Commander, and an operator during the battle of Mogadishu) if anyone thinks the standards were lowered, you are welcome to come back to Benning and have your Ranger Tab revalidated.
The real reason so many are whining about this, and insisting that the standards must have been lowered, is that they feel like their own macho self image is lessened if a "girl" did it. It's nothing but ego that is bothering these whiners. Get over it. If you think women are at such a physical disadvantage in terms of muscle mass, etc, then you should respect and applaud those women who meet the standards despite starting out without the advantages the men have. It's also an ego thing when the failures go back to the units and have to explain why they couldn't finish the roadmarches in time, while females carrying the exact same rucksacks did.
So let's cut through all the bullshit about lowered standards and taking up slots. It's a bunch of crap.
But they aren't weeded out. And that's exactly the issue. If you're a male, you can apply for and receive a slot at Ranger School. Nobody says "nope, you can't go, because you're a male.' Nobody says ahead of time, without any consideration of your own personal fitness, drive, motivation and skills that you are unqualified to go to Ranger School. Just because you are a male.
But until very recently, if you were a female, you were excluded from the Army's best leadership school just because you were a female. If you were a PLT LDR in an MI battalion, your male counterparts in the same jobs could go, (and fail) but you couldn't even apply. So it didn't matter if you could run circles around your fellow male platoon leaders, or read a map way better than them, or whatever. You didn't get a chance to try, but they did. And so off they go, failing by the hundreds if not thousands a year, while you are told you "don't have what it takes". All those failures get the chance to see if they have what it takes or not, but the female soldier is simply assumed to not have what it takes.
As the CG of Ft Benning said (who was a former SFOD-Commander, and an operator during the battle of Mogadishu) if anyone thinks the standards were lowered, you are welcome to come back to Benning and have your Ranger Tab revalidated.
The real reason so many are whining about this, and insisting that the standards must have been lowered, is that they feel like their own macho self image is lessened if a "girl" did it. It's nothing but ego that is bothering these whiners. Get over it. If you think women are at such a physical disadvantage in terms of muscle mass, etc, then you should respect and applaud those women who meet the standards despite starting out without the advantages the men have. It's also an ego thing when the failures go back to the units and have to explain why they couldn't finish the roadmarches in time, while females carrying the exact same rucksacks did.
So let's cut through all the bullshit about lowered standards and taking up slots. It's a bunch of crap.
(0)
(0)
My OCS (1977-78) Classmates. They were in our platoon and achieved EVERY standard we did. They NEVER complained and always gave 110%. One of them went on to fly fixed wing Army Reconnaissance Aircraft. I am not much for this macho crap. If a woman is capable of making it through the crucible of RANGER School - fine. I say go for it.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next


Women in the Military
Ranger
Ranger School
