Posted on Feb 7, 2015
What do you "Honestly" think about women attending Ranger School?
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Myself and hundreds of other Retired Rangers are tired of all this nonsense of women attending Ranger School. Why is the Army leadership encouraging special preference to attend a premier infantry and leadership school. It is a hard journey for qualified Male Infantrymen to compete for and get an extremely limited slot to attend the Ranger Course. Many of Rangers had to prove themselves to be hardened Infantry Sergeants in order to even be considered to attend the local Pre-Ranger Course, before even thinking of attending The Ranger Course. Normally an Infantry Company and/or Battalion could only send "one" representative soldier to the Pre-Ranger Course (per course). Infantry Soldiers competed amongst each other to get that slot. The 21-day Pre-Ranger Course, was definitely tough as or tougher than Ranger School itself, was hell to get through. And even after passing, was not a guaranteed slot to attend The Ranger Course due to budget, deployment, and training issues for the unit (not the individual soldier). If you did not get the opportunity to attend The Ranger Course within six months, well it was a requirement to attend the local Division 21-day Pre-Ranger (assessment) Course again. Once again, the male soldier had to pass all standards in order to be recommended to attend The Ranger Course. The Ranger Course had the toughest standards. To begin day one of the Ranger Course, during the APFT, the Ranger Instructor (RI) would not allow you to pass the push up or sit up event the first time. Every Male Ranger Student failed the push up event and had to perform the push up event a second time (five to ten minutes later) to Standard! My first attempt at the push up event, we had to complete at least 62 push ups. The RI was counting, 59, 60, 61, 61, 61... and so on. We were warned that we could not stop during the two minute event or else we would be considered a failure at this event. So I kept knocking out the push ups and asked the RI what it was that I was doing wrong. He answered with, shut up Ranger and keep knocking them (push ups) out or you will fail. I kept my mouth shut and knocked out approximately 120 push ups. The RI failed me. I got back in line and had the same RI grade my push ups again about ten minutes later. 59, 60, 61, 61, 61, once again I asked what it was I was doing wrong while I cranked out those push ups, and once again the RI stated shut up Ranger and keep knocking them out or else you will fail. That was the first moments of Ranger School and every standard was just as tough. If you were just there to earn your Tab, you were surely going to drop out of the course. But if you were a fully prepared Infantry Stud with the attitude that you attended the Ranger Course to test yourself and understood that you were going to have to push beyond all personal limitations in order to merely make it through the relentless day of Ranger Training. The one thing I really appreciated about Ranger School is that the Standards were set so high, every Infantry Soldier knew it was the very best training and test that any soldier can volunteer for. When finished, with an average of one hour of sleep per day, moving with heavy (very heavy) loads about 10 to 25 kilometers per day, performing tactical maneuvers, and being graded in leadership positions. It was far more harsh than I ever expected, every bit the hardest single accomplishment as far as physical and mental exhaustion in a training environment is concerned. Even for the most hardened and gruesome Infantryman. Ranger School was no joke. I'm not thinking it is at all a place for females. There is no way possible to keep the standards the same. We were not taken back to the rear with the gear to shower when we smelled. That is what Infantrymen do. It is dirty and frankly stinky, to say the least. I eventually became an RI in the Desert Phase and then later in my career a Senior Ranger Instructor in the Mountain Phase. It was a humbling experience serving with top notch soldiers / world class athlete Rangers. To say the least it was an Honor serving with the Ranger Training Brigade and maintain the standards. Let us not lose that, the standards. Let us not add the nonsense of preferential treatment. The RI's were hard as nails but fair. Let us not give away the farm to break the glass ceiling. You will rarely hear any news of Rangers in action, it is a quiet professional tight knit unit that prides itself on operational security. I can see no way to not change the standards once women attend the Ranger Course. This course will become a political agenda which will cause the truly dedicated Ranger Instructors to lose their jobs as RI's as we once knew it. Is it too late to turn back? Let the nonsense begin, female issues, separate but same, political agenda, media scrutiny, RI unfairness, sexual harassment, preferential treatment, male students No-Go's due to (female) not performing to standards during patrols... The list can go on, just ask any RI that has served a full term as an Ranger Instructor. Let us not forget the original intent for this course is to train men to lead soldiers into combat. When we give these limited (Ranger School) slots to female soldiers/officers, then we take away from the Infantryman, the soldiers themselves, and the Infantry Units. Let us not take this away.
Retired Ranger 1SG David D. Lopez
Paso Robles, CA
Retired Ranger 1SG David D. Lopez
Paso Robles, CA
Women in the Military
Ranger
Ranger School
Posted 11 y ago
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With all due respect to male Soldiers, I do not understand the mentality that males are automatically elite physical studs in comparison to females. I out-run and out-ruck the vast majority of male Soldiers that I have encountered. (I recently completed a 12 mile ruck with 45 pounds in 2:04.) If I can out-PT a male because I have more toughness, drive, and intestinal fortitude, why should I be deprived of the opportunity to go to the best schools simply because I lack a Y chromosome? In my opinion, that is asinine.
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Sgt (Join to see)
As long as they don’t lower the original bar to accommodate women. I saw some of that when I joined the Marine Corp in the late 70s
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Can't wait until a woman graduates from Ranger School. If they can make it, they can make it. If they can't they can't. 15 made it through Pre-Ranger. Looking forward to the right people making it through...male or female.
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LTC (Join to see)
CPT Raymond W. Starmann by your math and the population of the world that means there are 36,200 women that could make it through Ranger School. A world population of 7.24B divided in half to 3.62B (as the figures for male to female ratio are close enough to 1:1 to not make a noticeable difference) then multiplied by .00001. I think that 1 of these first few classes is 1 of those 36200, and I believe that all of them being recycled shows they are not bending the standards.
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COL (Join to see)
2. The answer is 2. Issue settled for the next couple of days. I am sure people will now be trying to throw all sorts of BS-flags about it. Glad to see these two hard-core officers make it through this course! Congrats.
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1SG (Join to see)
LTC (Join to see) - I am pretty sure there is not 7.24B in the United States, I understand you math, however only United States Service Members can attend Ranger School.
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LTC (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see) - Actually, many of our allies send their Soldiers, NCOs, and Officers as it is a preeminent school for tactical leaders in their countries as well.
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All I will say is that they better join RallyPoint and tell us how it went.
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SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
Brother that's the truth. It will be monumental event to say the least!
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SFC James Needles
I for one would love to read about their experiences, however, Im thinking it will be quite some time before we get that opportunity
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So for everyone out there I know that I may ignite a firestorm with this, but who cares and here goes...
Ranger School is not just for Infantrymen.
Yes it is a school that teaches (broad construct) small unit infantry tactics. I am not an Infantryman, I did go and make it through Ranger School, and yes I am more proud of that little tab on my uniform more than just about anything else. But for many other units/branches out there it is a leadership school. It tests your inner resolve to see if you have what it takes before you are in the thick of whatever you are in. Just as iron sharpens iron, Ranger School sharpens one's leadership skills.
If a woman can embrace the suck and make it through then good on her, as long as she makes it through where the standards aren't changed.
Ranger School is not just for Infantrymen.
Yes it is a school that teaches (broad construct) small unit infantry tactics. I am not an Infantryman, I did go and make it through Ranger School, and yes I am more proud of that little tab on my uniform more than just about anything else. But for many other units/branches out there it is a leadership school. It tests your inner resolve to see if you have what it takes before you are in the thick of whatever you are in. Just as iron sharpens iron, Ranger School sharpens one's leadership skills.
If a woman can embrace the suck and make it through then good on her, as long as she makes it through where the standards aren't changed.
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LTC (Join to see)
Agreed, I don't want the standard to change, but I have no issue if women make it with the standards as they are.
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COL (Join to see)
I went as an Armor officer. What I learned was not a direct relationship to my first job, tank platoon leader, but it certainly helped me as a scout platoon leader. I was enlisted infantry but that didn't have anything to do with me going to Ranger school. I have met many non-infantry types who benefited greatly from the course. It is inherently a leadership course as I'm sure others have stated in this forum.
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SFC James Needles
There are a lot of non combat arms units out there that need good combat leaders. If a woman can graduate without altering the standards then why not? She could then put those skills to use in a support unit. Could be a bonus if her unit was attacked
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My opinion is that since I couldn't pass Ranger school, I should really have no opinion on any woman that can pass Ranger school. If they can pass, more power to them. If they can't pass...
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One day a woman is going to graduate from your ranger school. She will wear her tab with the same pride as every man before her, but never get the respect they do. She will have upheld every standard and passed every test, and yet, no man will think she earned it. Only her, and her Ranger Instructors will know how much of herself went into earning it. After her, there will be others, inspired by her strength, never as many as the men, but we will never give back the rights we have gotten. Someday we will truly be equals, but for that to happen, men need to stop viewing us as the weaker gender. We are getting closer to equality, and in many ways we are, but even now, we are not. They give people more rights, they tend not to take them away.
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1SG Michael Bonnett
So, if they are going to make it on their own, why have they had so much additional help already and why are there DA appointed minders at the Ranger course for this class?
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A1C (Join to see)
I never said they will all do it, there will be one, some day. So far she has not appeared. I don't think they should be getting the help. They need to fail just like their brothers if they can't do it. Do it right or don't do it at all.
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SGT Aron Houghton
A1C Huber, I have to disagree with your statement in regards to respect that a female tab wearer will receive. I for one will always respect the wearer of that tab and I remember, back when, seeing soldiers with that tab and dreaming of having one myself someday. She will be respected for earning it, but will she or they live up to the purpose and reasons for giving females the opportunity to earn it?
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SFC (Join to see)
I agree with you to an extent @nicole hunter, except the part where a woman who passes will not be excepted by her pears. I have met a few woman and myself included that have gone through some intense trainings.
The only thing other soldiers care about, that I've encountered in my TOS, is that if you want to do it! Then do it to the level they have to do it at. Cause if a woman takes the exception because she's a woman, then your only dead weight in a real life threatening situation.
Proving your a soldier and not worrying about gender restrictions is what Gaines you respect amongst your pears. Not just the few that come behind you or the occasional instructor who says, "not bad for a girl!" Let go of the gender card, and work on just being the soldier.
I personally never looked at what the minimum requirements were for my age and sex for a female soldier. I looked the minimum requirements for the male soldier to make myself an equal.
In my day, that's how you became a unit. Not separating your requirements by gender, but pushing through till your body and mind over came.
Thank you for your service.
The only thing other soldiers care about, that I've encountered in my TOS, is that if you want to do it! Then do it to the level they have to do it at. Cause if a woman takes the exception because she's a woman, then your only dead weight in a real life threatening situation.
Proving your a soldier and not worrying about gender restrictions is what Gaines you respect amongst your pears. Not just the few that come behind you or the occasional instructor who says, "not bad for a girl!" Let go of the gender card, and work on just being the soldier.
I personally never looked at what the minimum requirements were for my age and sex for a female soldier. I looked the minimum requirements for the male soldier to make myself an equal.
In my day, that's how you became a unit. Not separating your requirements by gender, but pushing through till your body and mind over came.
Thank you for your service.
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Should women soldiers be allowed to go to Ranger School? Ranger School is designed to produce effective small unit combat leaders. And the training is conducted through small unit patrols, conducted in very tough conditions. When I worked in the Ranger Department in the early 1970s the average student lost 10% to 15% of his body weight during the eight week Ranger Course. But Infantry COMBAT is even tougher. ( I served two tours as an Infantry Platoon Leader and Company Commander in Viet Nam) And that is what Ranger school prepares it's students to do: be an effective Small Unit Infantry Leader in COMBAT. There is no doubt that have some outstanding women soldiers, and I am sure that some of them could even pass the Ranger Course. But Ranger School is not Combat.
We should not make women Infantry for the same reason that women do not play in the National Football League. Infantry requires physical strength, but also the ability to perform the brutal acts of close combat without hesitation. By nature men are more agressive than women. And I like that difference, and do not see the necessity to try and resocialize some of our women soldiers to the necessary level of brutality for Infantry Combat. Less than 10% of the US Army is Infantry. Infantry is a dirty dangerous job.
In training I have no doubt that women could serve very well in any Infantry unit. They can go on field exercises, make the marches, stay up for 72 hours. But the problem is that all of that activity is merely preparation for COMBAT. The Army already has problems in making the transistion from Peace Time Army to Combat Operations. Including women in the infantry will only make that transistion to the harsh realities of Combat more difficult. And that has the clear potential to cost lives, of both men and women soldiers.
And the other large issue is that with Infantry Soldiers we are talking about young men. And even if women are allowed to serve in the Infantry, (I don't think there would be many women who will be interested), the majority of the Infantry Soldiers will still be young men. And Infantry Squad (8-10 men) Platoon (20-30 men) is like a suspension bridge. It only works when the load is evenly distributed, that is every one is carrying their load. I think the great problem ISN'T the women soldiers, the problem would be the young male soldiers trying to protect the women soldiers in their unit. Young men are going to try to protect the young women (and I think they should) but including women in the Infantry complicates the chaos of Infantry small unit combat. Gives the small unit leader (Fire Team Leaders, Squad Leaders, Platoon Leaders) another variable to consider when they are trying to survive and kill the enemy (which is often the critical issue in surviving).
Young men are going to look after women who are near them in dangerous situations. That instinct is part of human nature, and regulations or laws will not change human nature.
We should not make women Infantry for the same reason that women do not play in the National Football League. Infantry requires physical strength, but also the ability to perform the brutal acts of close combat without hesitation. By nature men are more agressive than women. And I like that difference, and do not see the necessity to try and resocialize some of our women soldiers to the necessary level of brutality for Infantry Combat. Less than 10% of the US Army is Infantry. Infantry is a dirty dangerous job.
In training I have no doubt that women could serve very well in any Infantry unit. They can go on field exercises, make the marches, stay up for 72 hours. But the problem is that all of that activity is merely preparation for COMBAT. The Army already has problems in making the transistion from Peace Time Army to Combat Operations. Including women in the infantry will only make that transistion to the harsh realities of Combat more difficult. And that has the clear potential to cost lives, of both men and women soldiers.
And the other large issue is that with Infantry Soldiers we are talking about young men. And even if women are allowed to serve in the Infantry, (I don't think there would be many women who will be interested), the majority of the Infantry Soldiers will still be young men. And Infantry Squad (8-10 men) Platoon (20-30 men) is like a suspension bridge. It only works when the load is evenly distributed, that is every one is carrying their load. I think the great problem ISN'T the women soldiers, the problem would be the young male soldiers trying to protect the women soldiers in their unit. Young men are going to try to protect the young women (and I think they should) but including women in the Infantry complicates the chaos of Infantry small unit combat. Gives the small unit leader (Fire Team Leaders, Squad Leaders, Platoon Leaders) another variable to consider when they are trying to survive and kill the enemy (which is often the critical issue in surviving).
Young men are going to look after women who are near them in dangerous situations. That instinct is part of human nature, and regulations or laws will not change human nature.
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1SG David Lopez
Excellent comments Ranger COL James Stevens. Thank you for your insight. I don't think there is a one Infantry PSG or SL that would want a female in their PLT/SQD, not to sound sexist. But it would really break the balance and expectations of the unit. I see only problems arrising from this. But more than likely, this is going to happen.
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SGT Aron Houghton
Col you have made the exact point that I had made. The fact that it is in man's nature to instinctively protect a woman may lead to his veering of field of fire and not doing his job in the necessary manner that is required for unit integrity. I think there are some women that can make it through Ranger School and I am more proud of this little tab then anything else that I have endured in my life. I say no to women in infantry, but I think even a woman should have the unbiased right to "BE ALL SHE CAN BE". I myself was not infantry, but rather MI, and the skills and leadership that I learned through the whole ordeal from Pre-RIP, RIP, Ranger Sustainment to Ranger School not only improved my job skills on an LLVI team in a light Infantry unit, but as a leader, I was able to teach my soldiers these skills in which they would have never been afforded the opportunity to ever learn and I am sure that they had passed along their knowledge to many others as well. Sir, this I believe with all my heart, that for every female that attempts Ranger School, at least one life will be saved in combat because of their training weather they tab or not.
Rangers Lead the Way
Rangers Lead the Way
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1SG David Lopez and SFC Greg Kemp you both make some really great points. I think the most important one that people should take away is that Ranger School isn't PLDC/WLC. It's not a leadership school in the generic sense like those courses are, it's an advanced infantry tactics school where people learn leadership traits.
You could really even take women out of the equation for the sake of argument, since it's pointless for someone without basic infantry skills to attend an advanced course. We don't send non-Airborne qualified people to jumpmaster school either....and it would be a stupid question to ask why.
If we really think women should be allowed to go to Ranger school, then great. Start with Infantry OSUT/IOBC, serve in an Infantry Platoon, and go when there's a point to it. That's what men do. Equality.
You could really even take women out of the equation for the sake of argument, since it's pointless for someone without basic infantry skills to attend an advanced course. We don't send non-Airborne qualified people to jumpmaster school either....and it would be a stupid question to ask why.
If we really think women should be allowed to go to Ranger school, then great. Start with Infantry OSUT/IOBC, serve in an Infantry Platoon, and go when there's a point to it. That's what men do. Equality.
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1SG David Lopez
Agree, start off in the Infantry and compete with the fellas for the possible slot to attend Pre-Ranger and /or Ranger School.
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SPC (Join to see)
Ranger School /= Ranger Regiment. Just because you earn a tab doesn't mean when you go back to your unit your job is any more dangerous.
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SFC James Needles
there has already been someone on here who said he wasnt an Infantry man, but he went and graduated. Granted Ranger School is primarily for Infantry MOS's, but how does a non 11 series soldier get to go or justify going if they are not in that MOS?
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CPT Lawrence Cable
1SG David Lopez - Ranger School doesn't even require that you be Army and other branches and Non Infantry types attend every day. While the school is geared toward training Infantry Officers and Senior NCO's, it is in fact a leadership school and anyone that can meet the qualifications, which today means being airborne qualified and passing the assessment week, can attend.
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As a grad of RTAC I understand what they went through. It is a great school. We started at 90 and ended with 45. As I stated in the past I wonder if the success rate is enough to warrant changing the whole system. Of those that pass RTAC even less will pass Ranger school. In reality we are looking at about 2 passing Ranger if they maintain the statistics of their male counterparts. I have a feeling they are not going to much the same statistics of their males counterparts. If they get 1 to pass they will have about a 3% pass rate from the start of the program.
But if one does pass she is pretty much a bad ass and I will go with her to combat any day.
But if one does pass she is pretty much a bad ass and I will go with her to combat any day.
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CPT (Join to see)
Between RTAC and Ranger I was there for 99 days. I recycled Mountain phase at Ranger so I added an extra 21 days. It sucked pretty bad. I lost 30 pds. I put on weight on purpose before I went. I am usually at 200. I got up to 210 before I went. I dropped to 180 by the end. I recall being so bad off I was hallucinating.
I was lucky I was in the Guard. I got to go home and not work for a while. I was messed up for about a couple weeks. I lost a lot of strength and ate everything in sight. My body recovered well once I had a lot of sleep and food. But while in the school I was suffering pretty bad. We all were. I know how hard I had it in Mountains. If a female gets a M240 or 1000 rounds of 7.62 on top of all of their gear I just see how that is going to work. SGT Robert Chestney
I was lucky I was in the Guard. I got to go home and not work for a while. I was messed up for about a couple weeks. I lost a lot of strength and ate everything in sight. My body recovered well once I had a lot of sleep and food. But while in the school I was suffering pretty bad. We all were. I know how hard I had it in Mountains. If a female gets a M240 or 1000 rounds of 7.62 on top of all of their gear I just see how that is going to work. SGT Robert Chestney
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CPT (Join to see)
SGT Robert Chestney In my opinion it will be very challenging. I see that increased demand on their body burning more calories. I think they will be strong enough but the question relates to the stamina and the strength. It is not just that they have to met a certain expectation but they have to compete against men. When you do a patrol and fall back you can get dropped. There isn't a set speed or weight. If you are carrying a 240 that day and are going up two mountains you are expected to keep up with that guy that is 6'2'' is carrying only 70 pounds. That female would be carrying at least 100 pounds. Can she keep up? I just see this going the way of the Marine Infantry Officer School.
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1SG David Lopez
Everything 1LT Eric Rosa stated is true. It is extremely harsh environment even for the most proven of Infantry studs. I hope that no slack is given to them just because they are females. In my PLDC class, (back in ancient times), the females in our squad talked a good talk while we were in garrison. But once we went to the field, not a once were they placed into leadership positions, they complained when it was there turn to carry the machine gun or the radio. They did not want to do anything, they kept saying they did not have to do this or that because they were not infantry. Overall it was a very bad experience, but these females were tough as nails in garrison, foul mouths worse than any of us guys, etc. Going back to Ranger school, I was about 150 when I started, I was about 125 when I finished. I caught pnemonia in the desert phase and the doctor wanted to admit me to the hospital. I had 11 days to graduate and begged the doctor to let me finish. It was difficult, but my Ranger Buddy and I finished without getting recycled. Also, going through during the winter has a certain harshness to the already grueling training environment. Some say that Winter Rangers had a more difficult experience. I honestly don't know if I could have completed if I got recycled, those Rangers are tough, really tough. It was hard enough the first time through. It is also luck to make it through. Skill, hard work, but a lot of luck. You lose one student while you are in a graded position, and it is a No-Go on that patrol for you. Good luck to the females, my hat is off to you for even making an attempt. If one graduates, I hope to treat her to a ceremonial Ranger Burger myself. Good Luck Ladies.
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CPT (Join to see)
1SG David Lopez I could go for a Ranger Burger right now. I was in benning in FEB. Then those stupid cold fronts blew threw. It made life very challenging.
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1SG David Lopez - Sir I could not agree with you more. I have had the same silly discussion on a Marine Corps site about WMs in infantry and now I hear a rumor about letting them attend RECON and other such type training. I have DVDs on each services SPEC OPS training and after seeing what a Ranger goes through I don't know how the Army would ever consider such a thing.
I'm old school and see things very different from a lot of the young bucks here on RP who do not see anything wrong with this so I guess I'm truly one of the few. :-) I honestly do not understand why a woman would want this? What to go to war and see such horrible things that will haunt them the rest of their lives... Why? What have we become when we want to send our women off to war?
BTW 1SG David Lopez - That is a helluva good looking dog.
I'm old school and see things very different from a lot of the young bucks here on RP who do not see anything wrong with this so I guess I'm truly one of the few. :-) I honestly do not understand why a woman would want this? What to go to war and see such horrible things that will haunt them the rest of their lives... Why? What have we become when we want to send our women off to war?
BTW 1SG David Lopez - That is a helluva good looking dog.
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SFC (Join to see)
SrA Tommy G, this thread was about women attending Ranger school. Ranger school is a leadership school oriented on small unit tactics. So basically it’s an infantry leader course. That’s why I asked if you were ever infantry. It wasn’t to disparage the MOS you work in. If we were discussing firefighting I would not have much to offer in that conversation. You shouldn’t be so sensitive. Though, you did state that another comment I made was hurtful. I fear this oversensitivity is a trait found in many of the younger military personnel. It’s the very reason our country has a problem with political correctness.
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Cpl Brett Wagner
SFC Paul Pakenham & MSG Steve Howell - I'm only saying this because I care about you as brothers. You need to watch yourselves with SrA Tommy he was awarded the Valor Award and you can probably tell as can I he is one dangerous man don't poke the tiger. Just trying to watch out for you. ;-)
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Cpl Brett Wagner
SSG James J. Palmer IV PV2 Lisa Wilcox A1C Nicole Huber - I am sure there are women out there who can do this and more. I guess I'm too old Corps for some things. I guess I see sending women to war as a failure on the part of America. Recently someone posted an article on other countries that have women in combat roles. Removing Israel & Germany from that list every one of those countries have needed the United States to come to their aid at some point in a war. Therefore I think those are not good examples to follow. Until recent history America has always won our wars. Korea & Vietnam turned out the way it did because of politicians not our soldiers the same with Iraq & Afghanistan. Our military is and always will be made up from the best the world has to offer. Unfortunately our politicians seem to be made up from the worst people in the world.
I don't know about Germany but I will point out that if our military was not in that country it would have been part of the USSR. The same for South Korea it would not exist without the US.
On the subject of Israel they have mandatory service and if you hadn't noticed everyone in Israel lives in a combat zone therefore the men, women and children are all in a combat zone and are seen as combatants by their enemies. I hope and pray the United States is never in the position that Israel is in and has been for over 60 years.
I love and support all my brothers and sisters.
I don't know about Germany but I will point out that if our military was not in that country it would have been part of the USSR. The same for South Korea it would not exist without the US.
On the subject of Israel they have mandatory service and if you hadn't noticed everyone in Israel lives in a combat zone therefore the men, women and children are all in a combat zone and are seen as combatants by their enemies. I hope and pray the United States is never in the position that Israel is in and has been for over 60 years.
I love and support all my brothers and sisters.
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SSG (Join to see)
Cpl Brett Wagner, I hear you, brother. The dude is just not worth my time to respond to. He's ignorant and arrogant in many things especially having a self-righteous, holier than thou, I'm better than you attitude.
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