Posted on Sep 28, 2015
What do you think about having enlisted drone pilots in the USAF?
81.9K
136
89
13
13
0
A lot of info here about the RPA career field any how the decision will be made in 2016 on whether or not to allow enlisted Airman to be RPA pilots...possibly even fly conventional aircraft in the future.
With all of the changes over the years with enlisted jobs being switched to officer jobs such as Sensor Operators on AC-130s and enlisted Weapons Directors being taken off of AWACS what are your thoughts on this subject?
http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/careers/air-force/enlisted/2015/09/28/enlisted-drone-pilots-decision-expected-early-next-year/72806812/
With all of the changes over the years with enlisted jobs being switched to officer jobs such as Sensor Operators on AC-130s and enlisted Weapons Directors being taken off of AWACS what are your thoughts on this subject?
http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/careers/air-force/enlisted/2015/09/28/enlisted-drone-pilots-decision-expected-early-next-year/72806812/
Flying
Pilot
Enlisted
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 39
24
24
0
Re-instate Warrant Officers and promote into these billets after "flight" school
(24)
(0)
Capt Daniel Goodman
That I've long thought was most definitely desirable...when I was in, they were being stopped in USAF, which, to me at least, made virtually zero sense...even USPHS is allowed them by statute, though has never sought to use them...to me, not making use of such grades seems an utter waste, if Army and the other svc s can use them, I see no reason why IS AT and USPHS shoukdnt, by allmeans, esp USAF for both pilot and nav/WSO spots, absolutely...Navy has their enlisted pilot program in WW2, as well as naval observer, which my Dad very nearly went for...as I'd said, total lunacy to me to not make use of those grades...if an associates needs to be a requirement, unlike Army allowing only high school, as I'd read, for rotary wing aviation, so be it, however, the grades themselves should most definitely be reinstated, to my way of thinking, at least, though, of course, no one's gonna listen to me, obviously, I entirely realize that, certainly....
(1)
(0)
Capt Daniel Goodman
Enlisted Naval Aviation Pilots (NAP) History
Introduction to listings of U.S. Navy, Marine Corps and Coast Guard enlisted receiving the designation of Naval Aviation Pilot (NAP) from 1917 to 1947
(0)
(0)
Capt Daniel Goodman
The Observer Badge is a military badge of the United States armed forces dating from the First World War. The badge was issued to co-pilots, navigators, and flight support personnel who had received a variation in the training required for the standard Pilot's Badge. The Observer Badge survived through the Second World War and into the 1950s, at which time the concept of an Observer Badge was phased out in favor of the modern Aircrew Badge and...
(0)
(0)
Capt Daniel Goodman
https://getsnap.link/W8odSXq7d11
I use SnapTube, a freebie version of youtube, however, the film is called Against the Sun, a true story of Naval enlisted aviators crashing into the Pacific in WW2, the NCOIC got I think the EFF for saving his crew, I believe, you should be able to find it on YouTube directly, as well....
I use SnapTube, a freebie version of youtube, however, the film is called Against the Sun, a true story of Naval enlisted aviators crashing into the Pacific in WW2, the NCOIC got I think the EFF for saving his crew, I believe, you should be able to find it on YouTube directly, as well....
(0)
(0)
19
19
0
Having a baccalaureate degree has absolutely NO bearing on ones ability to fly a drone, unless Drone flying was their major in college!
(19)
(0)
CW5 Edward "Tate" Jones Jr.
In fact the Army started the RPV/UAV/UAS (Drone) program WITH enlisted pilots and system operators. Piloting was then taken over by Aviation Branch and that ended that, unfortunately. However, INTEL birds operate with a combination of Aviation Pilots and INTEL Systems operators at this point and the system appears to work adequately.
(0)
(0)
12
12
0
I don't really have a particular issue with a drone pilot being enlisted or an officer. My guess for why pilots have traditionally been officers is two-fold. One for the leadership aspect in a multi-crewed aircraft (not an issue with any current drones) and two for "aptitude" for education. They know an officer made it through 4 years of college and has a "better" chance of making it through flight school. To start with far more enlisted personnel have degrees than ever before, and second I don't know that making it through college is a good indicator anymore anyways.
Long story short it doesn't particularly bother me.
Long story short it doesn't particularly bother me.
(12)
(0)
MSG Brad Sand
LCDR (Join to see)
I think the a third reason why one might argue why a Commissioned Officer was placed behind the stick of an aircraft was to make the on spot call as an officer and gentleman. With a drone pilot being supervised...maybe a half a world away...these issues are removed.
I think the a third reason why one might argue why a Commissioned Officer was placed behind the stick of an aircraft was to make the on spot call as an officer and gentleman. With a drone pilot being supervised...maybe a half a world away...these issues are removed.
(0)
(0)
LTC Paul Labrador
SFC James Barnes - that is true nowadays, but when a lot of these regs and "traditions" were instituted, the enlisted ranks were nowhere near as educated as they are today. Back in WW2 and Korea (and before), you'd be lucky if half your enlisted men had HS diplomas, let alone college, so the requirement to have a commission (which carried with it the requirement for a post-HS education) made sense. That is not the case nowadays, and maybe the regs need to be re-looked at.
(1)
(0)
SSgt John Carter
The Army has had Warrant Officer helicopter pilots since the Korean War, not only are they successful, many have been awarded the Medal of Honor for their heroic service as pilots.
(0)
(0)
CW5 Edward "Tate" Jones Jr.
Very few Army WO pilots start their flying careers with degrees. Career development and advancement potential pressures in the Army today STRONGLY encourage continuing education but a high percentage of WO Aviation candidates are recruited right out of High School.
(0)
(0)
8
8
0
I don't see any issues with it, particularly if we can remove some of the instances of commissioned pilots sucking up flight pay for sitting on the ground... Enlisted are just as capable and competent as any officer. A college degree does not make you a better pilot or leader.
(8)
(0)
7
7
0
I certainly feel like enlisted guys can fly and do all the jobs officers do (there are a ton of prior enlisted officers out there proving this point), but I feel like if you are going to have the responsibility you should also have the rank. Open the flood gates to enlisted who meets the prerequisites and if they qualify send them to OTS. RPA is really the only field that I can see us using warrant officers, so that seems like a big step.
Long story short I feel like any NCO that has the aptitude to fly also has the aptitude to finish a 4 year degree, so the requirement should stay the same while increasing the number of accessions to fill the holes.
Long story short I feel like any NCO that has the aptitude to fly also has the aptitude to finish a 4 year degree, so the requirement should stay the same while increasing the number of accessions to fill the holes.
(7)
(0)
TSgt Joseph Medlin
Yep, collage deg. to fly them, H.S. To fix them, with the tech. That's a little out dated concept.
(0)
(0)
TSgt (Join to see)
Maj (Join to see) - Sir, I live in that situation. I am an NCO, and a formal training instructor at a schoolhouse that produces rated officers (Air Battle Managers) - because in the CAF we do the same job. When we deploy, I work alongside Os and a Weapons Director (enlisted) and an Air Weapons Officer (commissioned) are interchangeable in combat. In fact, I have more experience, and am more proficient than most of the Officers I sit with. It is true that at a certain level the Os transition from crew members to crew leadership, but in a pinch an experienced Enlisted controller can also assume those duties. I think that the 4 year degree requirement is rather arbitrary when it comes to defining someone with the skills to carry out a certain missions.
(0)
(0)
Maj (Join to see)
TSgt (Join to see) - Oh I remember you! You're taught one of my first classes at Tyndall in ABM school! At that school one of my critique points was how I felt the enlisted instructors there were way better than the majority of the iABMs.
Our situation is slightly different in my opinion because we always have an SD running our weapons team and an MCC overseeing the whole op, so we are all under the supervision of "experienced" officers while performing our duties.
I agree that the degree doesn't make the man, but I do think that at a minimum the people employing ordinance have something similar to an SD or MCC overseeing the mission.
Thanks for your input sir! Hopefully you got to make it out to school at Nellis!
Our situation is slightly different in my opinion because we always have an SD running our weapons team and an MCC overseeing the whole op, so we are all under the supervision of "experienced" officers while performing our duties.
I agree that the degree doesn't make the man, but I do think that at a minimum the people employing ordinance have something similar to an SD or MCC overseeing the mission.
Thanks for your input sir! Hopefully you got to make it out to school at Nellis!
(0)
(0)
TSgt (Join to see)
Maj (Join to see) - As a matter of fact Sir, I graduated this past June. Regarding the degree vs no degree issue, I can see how as a discriminator, or a method of choosing candidates for enlisted pilots, a CCAF completion could be used to show a certain level of motivation or ability to apply ones self to a goal. I think putting the E's in the box for the UAVs, is really a method of freeing the commissioned pilot corps to sit in the cockpit of the manned assets. In those terms, it makes a lot of sense to me. Let me stress - I have ZERO desire to do that job. I love what I do!
(2)
(0)
3
3
0
Have you ever watched you son or grandson playing combat games were they are flying a plane using a joy stick? They are great at hitting targets and shooting down enemy planes. could they be an enlisted drone pilot - absolutely. You are not physically strap into a seat and physically flying a fighter plan. Your oxygen mask is not stuck to your face so tight when you land the outline of the mask is on your face. I believe enlisted men would excell as a drone pilot and they should be allowed to.
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
So, the reason that military pilots are generally officers is because way more people want to be a pilot than the military has need for. It's just another way to whittle down prospects to a more reasonable number. Plus, in order for that pilot to stay on after their initial commitment, an officer's salary is more enticing than enlisted.
This is opposed to the AF's drone program, which is causing the AF to hemorrhage pilots like crazy. Unlike being an actual pilot, hours in a drone do not translate over to any civilian fly job. So AF pilots are getting out before they have to do a drone tour.
So on one hand you got a pilot, a job that lots of people want to do, and has lucrative prospects outside the military, so it makes sense to make them officers. And on the other hand you have drone operator, which not as many people want to do, and does not provide lucrative outside career options. Makes sense to open up the billet to anyone who wants to do the job. I'd suggest "highschool to flight school" program like the Army has for its Warrant Officer pilot procurement.
This is opposed to the AF's drone program, which is causing the AF to hemorrhage pilots like crazy. Unlike being an actual pilot, hours in a drone do not translate over to any civilian fly job. So AF pilots are getting out before they have to do a drone tour.
So on one hand you got a pilot, a job that lots of people want to do, and has lucrative prospects outside the military, so it makes sense to make them officers. And on the other hand you have drone operator, which not as many people want to do, and does not provide lucrative outside career options. Makes sense to open up the billet to anyone who wants to do the job. I'd suggest "highschool to flight school" program like the Army has for its Warrant Officer pilot procurement.
(3)
(0)
SFC James Barnes
so making 100,000 dollars flying a drone on the fed side isn't lucrative? a sky west pilot average yearly salary is 82,198.
(0)
(0)
LCDR (Join to see)
The government is the only employer offering a salary like that to drone operators. Basically no other options than to continue working for the government. There is no private job to transition to that offers anywhere near that much money to fly a drone. Meanwhile there are a multitude of flying jobs out there that provide reasonable salary. It's harder to keep pilots in when they have so many options outside the government.
(0)
(0)
SSgt John Carter
The military is short THOUSANDS of pilots across the services.
Air Force is short about 2,000, Navy is short about 1,000, the Marines are short, only the Army isn't facing a shortage because of their Warrant Officer Pilot program allowing qualified individuals to skip college and enter directly into pilot training.
Air Force is short about 2,000, Navy is short about 1,000, the Marines are short, only the Army isn't facing a shortage because of their Warrant Officer Pilot program allowing qualified individuals to skip college and enter directly into pilot training.
(0)
(0)
LCDR (Join to see)
If the Navy is short pilots, then why is it forcing many of my colleagues to only fly for three years, followed by back to back non-flying tours, only to kick them out for not making O-4? Qualified pilots being hemorrhaged for no real reason other than the Navy's mismanagement of its pilots. I already said that the services are losing pilots because of outside job prospects. On top of that regional airline pay has been on the rise with increased targeting of military aviators to fill their hiring targets. Makes it more attractive to leave the military. Making warrant officers doesn't fix that problem.
(0)
(0)
3
3
0
I have seen enlisted Airmen after being a sensor operator for a couple of years walk pilots through the pre-flight, post flight and checklists during combat sorties. I whole heartedly believe a warrant officer class should be created. This would allow these enlisted guys a viable career path versus being bottlenecked at promotion time or forced out because there are too many (insert rank here).
(3)
(0)
TSgt Jack Manigold
The answer to the problem is Warrant Officers. They can shoulder the responsibility of being an aircraft commander. It gives the enlisted another progression route when it comes to promotion. The officers can stay in their airframe of choice and we can all live happily ever after.
(1)
(0)
3
3
0
I think it's a good idea. It is a waste of valuable training time to have a fighter jock sitting on a chair in Nevada doing a job enlisted personnel could do just as well.
(3)
(0)
Maj (Join to see)
I agree that it's rediculous pulling guys out of fighters to do this when there are plenty of guys dying for a chance to do the job.
(3)
(0)
2
2
0
No problem with me. Flying a drone is not hard. The technical piece of managing sensors/C2 information and weapon release are the issue in today's world.
(2)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google