Posted on May 28, 2014
What do you think of Open Carry Texas and other gun groups trying to carry firearm in public places?
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Honestly, I have never had a strong view on carrying firearms in public concealed or not. I own several firearms but don't feel the need to walk around armed even though I do have my conceal license and have been to several shooting course. Weapons are part of my job and I enjoy shooting them, I don't really consider them as a means of home security. But when I see groups like the Open Carry Texas trying to goto restaurants with not only pistols but assault rifles and shotguns a few things go through my mind. First, I see people that are looking for attention which they clearly get, as they act childish and smug when confronted. As soon as someone disagrees with them they throw out the 2nd amendment which was for self protection because our country was at war when it was written so common sense should be applied that carrying weapons is asking for trouble. When I say trouble I am talking about negligent discharges, confrontation, lack of training, and knowledge of weapons. What's the purpose other than causing a scene and getting attention. I love weapons and we should be able to own them but carrying them around in public. I mean there are plenty of countries where it is social acceptable to carry firearms in public, here are just a few: Nigeria, Algeria, Cote d’Ivoire, Zimbabwe, Sudan, Yemen, Sri Lanka, Gaza, Palestinian Territories, Pakistan, Democratic Republic of Congo, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Somalia just to name a few. What do all these places have in common they are really dangerous places, have little to no government, homicide rate is high, economy is terrible. Before we start preaching that we should be able to carry weapons in public areas think about how many safety accidents we have in the military where we train constantly proper weapons safety on a daily basis.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 73
Three things.
Thing the first, I fully support the second amendment right to keep and bear arms. It is not the right to do so only if not seen. That would be like "the right to free speech, but only in nobody hears you." I fully support open carry. It SHOULD be socially acceptable.
Thing the second, I fully support private property. Not only does this mean you can OWN whatever property you desire, it also means that the owners of that property are free to allow or disallow whatever behavior they chose (within adjudicated limits). This means I fully support the right of property owners to ban guns on their property/business. Similarly, I support your right to free speech, but I will happily curtail it in my living room and invite you to leave if you go past the bounds of decency.
Thing the third, "because I can" doesn't mean "I should." I support the general effort of open carry activists. Exercising your constitutional rights shouldn't be something you have to do in secret. Since there is a phobia (and we could argue reasons until the cows come home) among a large percentage of the population, it makes sense to try to show that you can carry a gun openly, without being a weirdo. It drives a needed conversation. However, there is a line between "making a point" and "being a d*&k." Unfortunately a small percentage of activists fall - or jump - into this category and make the rest look bad, creating opposition where there need not be any. Pun only slightly intended, they are guilty of self-inflicted GSWs to the movement.
Prime example: Starbucks had a very sane policy - "We support our customers following the law. We have no policy for or against open carry." [paraphased] They maintained this in the face of anti-gun group lobbying efforts. A HUGE win. It was pissed away by "National Starbucks Day" [or whatever it was called] morons gloating and insisting on taunting SBUX customers. Now starbucks has a "please don't" policy. (Note: They have not BANNED guns, just requested so far. Remarkable restraint). Same thing with Chipotle and the current spat.
If the open carry advocates hadn't had such a big chip on their shoulders....
Thing the first, I fully support the second amendment right to keep and bear arms. It is not the right to do so only if not seen. That would be like "the right to free speech, but only in nobody hears you." I fully support open carry. It SHOULD be socially acceptable.
Thing the second, I fully support private property. Not only does this mean you can OWN whatever property you desire, it also means that the owners of that property are free to allow or disallow whatever behavior they chose (within adjudicated limits). This means I fully support the right of property owners to ban guns on their property/business. Similarly, I support your right to free speech, but I will happily curtail it in my living room and invite you to leave if you go past the bounds of decency.
Thing the third, "because I can" doesn't mean "I should." I support the general effort of open carry activists. Exercising your constitutional rights shouldn't be something you have to do in secret. Since there is a phobia (and we could argue reasons until the cows come home) among a large percentage of the population, it makes sense to try to show that you can carry a gun openly, without being a weirdo. It drives a needed conversation. However, there is a line between "making a point" and "being a d*&k." Unfortunately a small percentage of activists fall - or jump - into this category and make the rest look bad, creating opposition where there need not be any. Pun only slightly intended, they are guilty of self-inflicted GSWs to the movement.
Prime example: Starbucks had a very sane policy - "We support our customers following the law. We have no policy for or against open carry." [paraphased] They maintained this in the face of anti-gun group lobbying efforts. A HUGE win. It was pissed away by "National Starbucks Day" [or whatever it was called] morons gloating and insisting on taunting SBUX customers. Now starbucks has a "please don't" policy. (Note: They have not BANNED guns, just requested so far. Remarkable restraint). Same thing with Chipotle and the current spat.
If the open carry advocates hadn't had such a big chip on their shoulders....
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SSG Ernie Reiss
As a retired law enforcement officer, I carry concealed 99% of the time I leave home. Nobody knows I am carrying and the only way they will find out is if I have to use it.
I would never open carry because I feel that I would be a target for the bad guy(s) if an incident were to happen. They do not need to know I am armed until it is too late for them
I would never open carry because I feel that I would be a target for the bad guy(s) if an incident were to happen. They do not need to know I am armed until it is too late for them
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SGT Steve McFarland
SSG Ernie Reiss Even if I could open-carry, I wouldn't, because, like you, I want that element of surprise.
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PO1 Milton Wiseman
I agree. I am also a CWP holder and in South Carolina we don't have open carry. I do carry concealed, out of sight with no tale tail sign I am armed. I too like to have the element of surprise, but I support open carry laws. Attention is not what I want and other than going into the field to hunt with my rifle slung over my shoulder, you would not know I am otherwise armed and I like it that way.
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You hit the nail on the head - these people are LOOKING for attention, and then complain when they get the type of attention that they know they're going to get. Seriously, I have multiple guns in my home and am a big supporter of the right to own and concealed carry. But do you think I want to take my kid up for ice cream and have jackasses walking around with AR-15s strapped to their backs? These are idiots with nothing better to do who are looking for someone to challenge them so that they can throw their opinions into other people's faces.
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COL (Join to see)
You give them attention (or police give them attention) and they will keep doing it. If the police didn’t act like jackbooted thugs this wouldn’t be an issue. They would get bored and go home.
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SFC Michael D.
Has anyone ever done a study on military bases? The state issues you a carry license. The military taught you how to shoot a weapon. But, you can't carry a weapon on post/base. Some post/bases are big enough to be a city. Is there less gun violence on base because of less guns or it it because the military are more disciplined? We all carried our weapons while deployed. In fact most of us slept with ours. So why can't we carry on post/base? I wonder if anyone has done a case study on the subject.
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SSG Michael Noll
SFC Michael D. - Only reason I dislike going on base for appointments. Do not like having to drive so far without some protection with me. Also someone mention not need to carry. To this I say if you pay insurance why? Better to have and not need then to need and not have. I call that forfit in a gun fight.
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I am all for open carry, and concealed carry. My reason is personal and societal protection. In places where everyone is armed, or is assumed to be armed it seems like crime (violent crime) is a little lower. Not too many people are going to try and rape or mug someone who might have a weapon. I don't have evidence of this, but that is my personal feeling.
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CW4 John Beebe, BS, DML
Chicago and Washington, D.C.---> Outlawed guns and crime more than tripled. There are many more examples but your assertion is completely correct.
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SGT Steve McFarland
I much prefer concealed to open carry, because I prefer to have the element of surprise.
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My initial response to this post was:
"If you don't like it, stay the hell out of TEXAS!" but then the Lord spoke to me and said that's the chip on the shoulder LTC Stoneking is referring to so I need to mind my manners.
In regards to your comment about "negligent discharges, confrontation, lack of training, and knowledge of weapons", excuse me SFC Spinks but where Im from in TEXAS the boys could handle a firearm better than an infantryman by the time they were 13.
Ok fine you got us on the "confrontation" part lol...
"If you don't like it, stay the hell out of TEXAS!" but then the Lord spoke to me and said that's the chip on the shoulder LTC Stoneking is referring to so I need to mind my manners.
In regards to your comment about "negligent discharges, confrontation, lack of training, and knowledge of weapons", excuse me SFC Spinks but where Im from in TEXAS the boys could handle a firearm better than an infantryman by the time they were 13.
Ok fine you got us on the "confrontation" part lol...
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SSG (Join to see)
SSG V. Michelle Woodscan't help it, she a hopeless romantic, and I mean that in a most sincere/humorous way
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SN Sean Willson
I am a Texan. Just wanted to get that out up front. Grew up in Fort Stockton, aka BFT. I have lived in many areas of Texas from west to east, north to south. I have known a LOT of Texans. Most of the ones I know own guns. Most of them barely know which end the bullets come out. Just cause you grew up around em don't mean you know jack sh!t about em. My dad taught me young gun safety and how to shoot. Not saying I'm a crack shot, but I do know how not to accidentally fire my weapon. Believe me, if I shoot you, I meant to. But let's be honest, mostly it's a case of rednecks with guns (which generally also involves beer, a bad combo).
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Only thing I want to point out is that you reference all those countries as having high homicide rates..... Have you researched any of the American homicide rates? Some of the City specific rates just might grab your attention.
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SFC Stephen Carden
I have always maintained that if citizens of those cities were allowed to carry firearms, either openly or concealed, that those homicide rates might not be so high. Those punk street thugs or home invaders might think twice if someone could shoot back at them.
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If you need to carry an AR-15 to get a burger, you're either really paranoid or a complete moron. I own guns and used to conceal carry when I was in a state that allowed, but I would NEVER open carry - especially in a restaurant where others might not share my love of guns, and ESPECIALLY not something like an AR15 or shotgun. And if you think about it, and AR15 is about the WORST thing you can have for close contact protection. At least a shotgun makes a little sense.
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SGT Charles Vernier
MAJ Ian Dews you would be amazed at the difference in effectiveness of 5.56 ammo loaded with expanding projecties vs. when it is loaded with the M855 projectile which is designed to penetrate with minimal deviation. From what I witnessed in my civilian law enforcement career soft point ammo makes the AR-15 a very effective weapons system.
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SGT Charles Vernier
I won't disagree that you look like a complete a$$ carrying an AR-15 to get pizza though!
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Sgt Jason West
With all due respect, Open Carry Texas has nothing to do with need, protection, paranoia, but instead is all about the moronic laws we have here in Texas. The movement has been hijacked by selfie addicts and jackasses, but started as an organized group of people who notified local authorities ahead of time on when and where a rally was to be held. The whole idea was to highlight the law in Texas that says it is legal for us to walk around with an AR/AK/.270/30-06/shotgun whatever but it is ILLEGAL to open carry a pistol secured in a holster. By rawising awareness of the laws and putting pressure on elected officials they have gotten several open carry and Constitutional carry bills introduced, and the gov. elect has promised to sign an open carry bill as soon as it come across his desk.
http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/Gov-Elect-Greg-Abbott-Pledges-to-Sign-Open-Carry-Bill-286151931.html
http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/Gov-Elect-Greg-Abbott-Pledges-to-Sign-Open-Carry-Bill-286151931.html
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The concept of open cary doesn't bother me in the least. It's the way that it's being done that gets stuck in my craw. The picture above is a bit over the top. I don't have an issue with someone in open cary with a typical sidearm. Think Glock 27 or something. Carying around a semi-auto short rifle painted like you're going to a patriotic gay-rights parade is garish and unecessary. If it's about protection, make it about protection...not about your ability to cary around a long rifle.
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Sgt Jason West
Look into the Open Carry Texas movement. The whole point is to get legislation passed to open carry pistols, which is currently illegal here. It is legal though to open carry rifles. See the problem? It is beyond stupid to allow the open carry of rifles, but ban the open carry of pistols. The movement started in an attempt to point out the absurdity of the law and push for open carry, at least before the selfie addicts and idiots jumped on board.
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COL (Join to see)
You learn something new every day! That is dumb as hell. Even in the left-coast state of Washington it is legal to open carry a sidearm.
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Sgt Jason West
Yup, you hit the nail on the head. The current law is dumb as hell. Hopefully it will change soon. The version of the bill that seems to have the most support is to allow people with concealed licenses to open carry. I prefer constitutional carry, but even licensed open carry is better than it is now.
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You hit the nail on the head - these people are LOOKING for attention. Doing Open Carry in an urban setting alarms the public and defeats the purpose of the legally Armed American. I was stationed in and vacation in SE Alaska where it is NOT unusual to see someone with a 44Mag on their hip or walking with a 12GA or 300WinMag. Difference is it is a rural setting with LARGE 800LB+ bears roaming the streets. Be Appropriate to your surroundings!!
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OK, I gotta weigh in on this one.....
Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, and Utah have some of the lowest crime rates in the country and always have had. If someone wants to do bad things in these states, chances are real good that at least 40% of the people in the area are armed (legally and not). We carry concealed, openly, in vehicles, on ATV's, in boats....you get the picture. Even when someone who doesn't have a CWL gets involved in a firearms situation..... we seldom prosecute or even arrest them. I know of several incidents where armed store owners chased the bad guy down (outside the store) and "stopped" him. Even Grand Jury's don't touch those and if the Prosecuting Attorney (District Attorney) wants to get re-elected, they won't push it. We just let nature take it's course and don't push it into a national incident.
Best advise...... don't over think this issue. Let the States involved handle it.
Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, and Utah have some of the lowest crime rates in the country and always have had. If someone wants to do bad things in these states, chances are real good that at least 40% of the people in the area are armed (legally and not). We carry concealed, openly, in vehicles, on ATV's, in boats....you get the picture. Even when someone who doesn't have a CWL gets involved in a firearms situation..... we seldom prosecute or even arrest them. I know of several incidents where armed store owners chased the bad guy down (outside the store) and "stopped" him. Even Grand Jury's don't touch those and if the Prosecuting Attorney (District Attorney) wants to get re-elected, they won't push it. We just let nature take it's course and don't push it into a national incident.
Best advise...... don't over think this issue. Let the States involved handle it.
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I conceal carry rather than open because it gives the armed person a clear advantage. I've never been approached, so I must be doing it right.
I don't mind people who open carry long guns or hand guns so long as maintain respect for others and always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
I don't mind people who open carry long guns or hand guns so long as maintain respect for others and always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
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