Posted on Oct 22, 2014
What do you think of the new Marine Corps Marksmanship overhaul?
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"In addition to plans to revise the service’s four tables of fire — among them those used for annual rifle qualifications — results of the symposium include the adoption of new photo-realistic targets, proper identification of a target, and the creation of a new uniform device for the service’s best shooters. New devices, which would denote top-notch proficiency with rifles and pistols, would be worn in lieu of standard marksmanship badges, according to the MARADMIN.
No-shoot targets introduced as early as Table 2 could result in point deductions during rifle qualifications. How they will be scored, however, is still being determined.
While changes span the entire continuum of Marine marksmanship, they all share a common thread. They are part of the service’s concerted march to place greater emphasis on combat shooting over bull’s-eye-style marksmanship. Combat-oriented changes that have already hit pistol marksmanship include the introduction of time limits and movement. The idea is to increase pressure and more accurately reflect the stresses of battlefield shooting, as compared with older Olympic-style marksmanship more akin to competition than fighting in a chaotic, dynamic environment."
You can find the entire article here where it breaks down each table of fire.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/article/20140929/NEWS/309290024/Marksmanship-overhaul-long-time-coming-say-Marines
What do you fellow infantrymen think of this? Do you think it will actually help any or will it just mess up your promotion points towards your cutting score?
No-shoot targets introduced as early as Table 2 could result in point deductions during rifle qualifications. How they will be scored, however, is still being determined.
While changes span the entire continuum of Marine marksmanship, they all share a common thread. They are part of the service’s concerted march to place greater emphasis on combat shooting over bull’s-eye-style marksmanship. Combat-oriented changes that have already hit pistol marksmanship include the introduction of time limits and movement. The idea is to increase pressure and more accurately reflect the stresses of battlefield shooting, as compared with older Olympic-style marksmanship more akin to competition than fighting in a chaotic, dynamic environment."
You can find the entire article here where it breaks down each table of fire.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/article/20140929/NEWS/309290024/Marksmanship-overhaul-long-time-coming-say-Marines
What do you fellow infantrymen think of this? Do you think it will actually help any or will it just mess up your promotion points towards your cutting score?
Marine Corps
Marksmanship
Pistol Shooting
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 2
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I'm 26 years out, so there is a very good possibility I do not know what I am talking about. Hasn't stopped me in the past, won't stop me now. The link won't load, my comments are based solely on what I went through and the small bit of detail you've provided.
The KD course was about one thing and one thing only. Poking holes at what you aim at. It' simple. It's basic. I like it. I think "should I be aiming at that?" is an important skill. So important that it should be its own training evolution. But I don't care if the target on the KD course is a silhouette or a fine art rendering of a pig diving to a lake.
As far as new devices for the uniform, we aren't the Army, we don't sell cookies on the sidewalk outside of WalMart, and we don't wear charm bracelets at pajama parties.
During the 80's and 90's I trained with small arms with every military service but the Coast Guard. I also trained with South Korean Marines and Army, Phillipine Marines, Brits, Portugeuse, Spaniards, French, Italians, Greeks, Israelis, and Kenyans. The only one that trained basic rifle marksmanship similar to US Marines was the South Korean Marines. Everyone else used some form of "more realistic," "combat stressor" course of instruction.
Inevitably it came down to a beer bet. Their top 20 marksmen. They can pick ANY 20 of my Marines. Ten of mine swap rifles with 10 of theirs. 10 rounds no score each to BZO the weapons on a "1000 inch" range. Then we use their qualification course, and the same number of rounds on the 500 yard line. A round in the black is a point. I never bought a single keg in well over a dozen bets. The only one that was even close was the South Koreans. That came down to that last shooter.
The KD course was about one thing and one thing only. Poking holes at what you aim at. It' simple. It's basic. I like it. I think "should I be aiming at that?" is an important skill. So important that it should be its own training evolution. But I don't care if the target on the KD course is a silhouette or a fine art rendering of a pig diving to a lake.
As far as new devices for the uniform, we aren't the Army, we don't sell cookies on the sidewalk outside of WalMart, and we don't wear charm bracelets at pajama parties.
During the 80's and 90's I trained with small arms with every military service but the Coast Guard. I also trained with South Korean Marines and Army, Phillipine Marines, Brits, Portugeuse, Spaniards, French, Italians, Greeks, Israelis, and Kenyans. The only one that trained basic rifle marksmanship similar to US Marines was the South Korean Marines. Everyone else used some form of "more realistic," "combat stressor" course of instruction.
Inevitably it came down to a beer bet. Their top 20 marksmen. They can pick ANY 20 of my Marines. Ten of mine swap rifles with 10 of theirs. 10 rounds no score each to BZO the weapons on a "1000 inch" range. Then we use their qualification course, and the same number of rounds on the 500 yard line. A round in the black is a point. I never bought a single keg in well over a dozen bets. The only one that was even close was the South Koreans. That came down to that last shooter.
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In case you can't get to the link here is some more info.
Marksmanship officials also will consider changes to the rifle marksmanship program, although their effort will focus almost exclusively on Tables 3 and 4, advanced courses of fire that Marines typically work through during pre-deployment training programs.
Barring changes to the Corps' service rifles, the Corps considers Tables 1 and 2 in the rifle marksmanship symposium set, Dankanich said. Table 1 outlines the service's Known Distance course of fire from 200, 300 and 500 yards, and Table 2 lays out field-fire exercises that include moving targets, speed reloads and multiple positions at ranges from 25 to 200 yards. Both are required as part of the annual requalification process.
The Corps wants to look at the progression of fires in Tables 3 and 4, however, to determine what needs improvement, Armstrong said. Commanders have raised questions, including whether it would be possible to work on parts of Table 4, which includes limited visibility night shooting, without completing all of Table 3, he said.
Marksmanship officials also will consider changes to the rifle marksmanship program, although their effort will focus almost exclusively on Tables 3 and 4, advanced courses of fire that Marines typically work through during pre-deployment training programs.
Barring changes to the Corps' service rifles, the Corps considers Tables 1 and 2 in the rifle marksmanship symposium set, Dankanich said. Table 1 outlines the service's Known Distance course of fire from 200, 300 and 500 yards, and Table 2 lays out field-fire exercises that include moving targets, speed reloads and multiple positions at ranges from 25 to 200 yards. Both are required as part of the annual requalification process.
The Corps wants to look at the progression of fires in Tables 3 and 4, however, to determine what needs improvement, Armstrong said. Commanders have raised questions, including whether it would be possible to work on parts of Table 4, which includes limited visibility night shooting, without completing all of Table 3, he said.
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