Posted on May 5, 2015
What does this say about our Servicemembers and what they swear to support and defend?
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It saddens me that, simply based on this poll, it appears that over 60% of Service-members advocate violence and/or physical action to stop another US citizens from exercising their Constitutionally protected right to free speech. Have we forgotten what our Oath is to? Do we value a flag more than the values it represents? Is this really representative of what our Armed Forces members think, or is this more like keyboard-warrior bluster?
Constitution
American Flag
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Posted >1 y ago
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It is a highly emotional issue.
The knee jerk reactions are save the flag, kick butt, etc.
But, the supreme court has said it IS free speech. Therefore the law of our land is that it is free speech. And, our oath requires us to defend a person right to do so. We can disagree, but we can not ignore what the court has said.
One thing we must always remember. A freedom does not exist unless it is freedom for everyone. There can not be exceptions.
The knee jerk reactions are save the flag, kick butt, etc.
But, the supreme court has said it IS free speech. Therefore the law of our land is that it is free speech. And, our oath requires us to defend a person right to do so. We can disagree, but we can not ignore what the court has said.
One thing we must always remember. A freedom does not exist unless it is freedom for everyone. There can not be exceptions.
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CPT Bob Moore
Capt (Join to see), that is one of the best things I have read on here:
"A freedom does not exist unless it is freedom for everyone. There can not be exceptions."
"A freedom does not exist unless it is freedom for everyone. There can not be exceptions."
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I am aware of my oath but it said all enemies foren or domestic and destroying the flag makes you an enemy in my mind and where will it stop?
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CPL Jay Freeman
No its not our Muhammad it just means a lot to us (service members) granted I don't have the power to proclaim a person or group as an enemy of the state but it says we can burn the flag so as I dump gass on it and set it on fire to honor the flag if your dumb enough to keep standing on it then fine. Show you contempt for our government in some other way step on the presidential flag take a picture of the United States step on that but please don't disrespect the flag I have fought for the country is messed up we get it there has to be some way to show this with out passing off another group (veterans) we take so many hits. Not allowing gays not letting women on the front lines being lead in prayer while in formation that's just the recent hits we have taken now we are making steps to change and losing our core and becoming a weaker nation so on my list of what's wrong standing on the flag that was draped over my brothers coffins is not the way to get me and the people you want to support your cause
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SGT Eric Knutson
While I will agree that the Supreme Court decided (wrongly in my opinion) there are other things to consider. If we take a close look at the OTHER actions that many of those who would burn our Standard, they are often doing other things that are criminal if not subversive to our country and way of life. While it has been quite some time since I last read FM 27-10, I believe that a subversive falls into cat 5 status, which is actionable. Much of their speech is contrary to the spirit of our Constitution if not the letter, many have been charged by local LEO's for vandalisim, drug charges, and other things that, individually are really nothing to worry about, but taken as a whole, a pattern can be seen, at least to me. As for what to do about it, my first inclination is a free ticket to a country of their choice (based on their own words) but it is only one way, and let them find out just how good they had it here.
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TSgt Denise Moody
SGT Eric Knutson - If by burning the flag a civilian law is broken that is for the civilian police to handle. Not our military.
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SGT Eric Knutson
I agree with the Posse Comutats (sp) it is not our job to enforce civil laws, however, we do have people who are behind the scenes who MAY be receiving orders from outside. these people CAN fall into the perveiw of military jurisdiction, I say this being one of those who do not trust the FBI or the CIA to do their jobs. I am also not saying that we should be taking things in our own hands, This is something for which JAG, CID, NCIS in conjunction with the AG and the Administration need to look into.
Many people still think that just because WE did not declare this group or that one as enemy combatants, does not mean that THEY did not declare war on us. Peace only exists when ALL parties agree to peace. if just one wants to keep up the fight then the fight goes on and you ignore it at your own peril
Many people still think that just because WE did not declare this group or that one as enemy combatants, does not mean that THEY did not declare war on us. Peace only exists when ALL parties agree to peace. if just one wants to keep up the fight then the fight goes on and you ignore it at your own peril
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I understand that the flag means a lot to those that served. It means a great deal to me. I teach classes to scouts, schools, and others about the flag, flag etiquette, and proper disposal of the flag. I have participated in and organized flag disposal ceremonies. I understand that the flag code is law, however, there are no penalties in federal for not following it.
"This code is the guide for all handling and display of the Stars and Stripes. It does not impose penalties for misuse of the United States Flag. That is left to the states and to the federal government for the District of Columbia. Each state has its own flag law.
Criminal penalties for certain acts of desecration to the flag were contained in Title 18 of the United States Code prior to 1989. The Supreme Court decision in Texas v. Johnson; June 21, 1989, held the statute unconstitutional. This statute was amended when the Flag Protection Act of 1989 (Oct. 28, 1989) imposed a fine and/or up to I year in prison for knowingly mutilating, defacing, physically defiling, maintaining on the floor or trampling upon any flag of the United States. The Flag Protection Act of 1989 was struck down by the Supreme Court decision, United States vs. Eichman, decided on June 11, 1990. " http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html
I have served overseas and in combat. I have had friends killed in combat and in training accidents. I have been on multiple continents, in multiple countries, and I know how bad it can be outside of the United States.
However, the constitution and the ideals that this country were founded on mean more. As MAJ Bryan Zeski said, we don't get to pick and choose what freedoms we protect.
While I find it disgusting, I would not only not interfere, I would be bound by my oath to protect them from those trying to interfere. I may be torn up over what they are doing to my flag, but freedom of expression, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and all of the other freedoms in our constitution are what I swore to defend.
"This code is the guide for all handling and display of the Stars and Stripes. It does not impose penalties for misuse of the United States Flag. That is left to the states and to the federal government for the District of Columbia. Each state has its own flag law.
Criminal penalties for certain acts of desecration to the flag were contained in Title 18 of the United States Code prior to 1989. The Supreme Court decision in Texas v. Johnson; June 21, 1989, held the statute unconstitutional. This statute was amended when the Flag Protection Act of 1989 (Oct. 28, 1989) imposed a fine and/or up to I year in prison for knowingly mutilating, defacing, physically defiling, maintaining on the floor or trampling upon any flag of the United States. The Flag Protection Act of 1989 was struck down by the Supreme Court decision, United States vs. Eichman, decided on June 11, 1990. " http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html
I have served overseas and in combat. I have had friends killed in combat and in training accidents. I have been on multiple continents, in multiple countries, and I know how bad it can be outside of the United States.
However, the constitution and the ideals that this country were founded on mean more. As MAJ Bryan Zeski said, we don't get to pick and choose what freedoms we protect.
While I find it disgusting, I would not only not interfere, I would be bound by my oath to protect them from those trying to interfere. I may be torn up over what they are doing to my flag, but freedom of expression, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and all of the other freedoms in our constitution are what I swore to defend.
USFlag.org: A website dedicated to the Flag of the UnitedStates of America - United States Code
Find answers to common and uncommon questions about the United States Flag and its evolution. Information on Flag etiquette and the U.S. Flag Code. Patriotic poems, hymns, and essays.
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I would ask why. And if I agreed with the sentiment I would stand straight and watch. If I didn't agree with the sentiment I would move on. As long as they aren't breaking any laws they have a right to do that which others abhor. That is what we took the oath to protect. If you can't protect that right you have no business in a uniform.
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The Greatest Play In Baseball - Rick Monday Saves U.S. Flag
On April 25, 1976 at Dodger Stadium, Rick Monday of the Chicago Cubs, grabbed and secured the American flag from two individuals as they were attempting to b...
It could be argued that if you save the flag, they'll just go get another flag. Generally, people that stupid are guilty of something else you can get them for without violating their First Amendment right of free speech. Consider Rick Monday's act at Dodgers Stadium. I admired it and the crowd obviously agreed. The nitwits who attempted to burn one in the outfield during the game were trespassing and arrested for that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrV8QPQAhxo
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If you want to stamp on the Flag ot Burn it... First wrap Your self up in it ... saves Me the trouble of having to do it...
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SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth
I'm in agreement with you, I'll donate a quart of high octane fuel to get things going.
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