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I am researching a specific incident that happened during the Vietnam war. Here is my question: If an officer was kicked out of the Army for lying about having a college degree, is he still entitled to medals and awards he earned? (I assume the discharge was dishonorable, but I don't know for sure.) Can he still claim he won a silver star or are his awards revoked?
JAG
Stolen Valor
Medals
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 9
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Were the awards presented for specific events, or just for being an officer? The lack of a degree doesn't negate the actions that rated awards...
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SFC Mark Merino
But if local commanders have the power to rescind awards for misconduct we get caught up in the ethical loop of heroic acts vs misrepresenting accomplishments. That much controversy will split the group down the middle. If I know my Army, they will opt to focus on the greater misconduct.
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LTC Jason Mackay
In Vietnam, Air Medals were awarded frequently. Many Infantry Commanders and staff had them for air assault operations and subsequent airborne command and control. http://www.hackworth.com/awards.html
Home Biography Contact Us Military Awards Sign Guestbook Columns About Defending America Defending America Archive Hacks Books BUY NOW! About Face. Brave Men, Steel My Soldiers' Hearts, Hazardous Duty, The Price of Honor, Vietnam Primer Support SFTT Buy Hack's Books!
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CPO Jon Campbell
My research indicates that the Army awarded Air Medals based on flight hours. The person in question claims over 30 and there is supporting documentation, but it just looks wrong to me. It is period documentation, so if is fake it was faked in the early '70s.
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AR 635-200 governs Enlisted Administrative Seperations. Would that be the criteria since the member in question wasn't an Officer in the first place? I read a few chapters that skirted the issue but I don't think they had that situation in mind when they drafted it. Now I HAVE to know. Curse your inquisitive mind CPO Jon Campbell
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CPO Jon Campbell
Ha! You think like me. I saw the claim and it didn't look right. It seems to me that if a citation was made to, say, 'Lt John Doe' and then it turns out that the Lt is not a legitimate title, the award is tainted if not invalidated. If you obtain a college degree using a false name, you may have learned everything for the degree, but the degree is invalid and the school will rescind it.
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SFC Mark Merino
I hate the chicken or the egg scenarios. I despise the why did the chicken cross the road scenarios! I dream of a world where a chicken can cross the road without having his intentions questioned.
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He can claim it, because he did earn it, but any award can be revoked. When a Soldier is court martialed and sentence to confinement, DD, BCD, etc... generally all awards and decorations are revoked. But, you can still say you earned it.
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I just read an article from ABCnews.com dtd 2012 about WWII underage members. They estimated more than 200,000 were underage and the youngest (discovered) was 12. If caught, back then, they were given an honorable discharge. Many reenlisted as soon as they bacame of legal age and were gladly accepted. Now if I can only figure out why I can't copy and paste articles and websites today......
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CPO Jon Campbell
Lying about your age to get in the military is almost a time honored tradition. There are documented cases going back to the Revolutionary War. It typically only resulted in issues with pensions. In this case, the guy was exposed as a fraud and unceremoniously kicked out of the Army. His story after this is strange and fantastic reading. Trying to separate the fact from the fiction is challenging. Some parts are well documented, while others are almost positively fiction of the highest order.
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SFC Mark Merino
All I know is that this is now stuck in my brain and I will be thinking about it all day. I shall have my revenge! A pox upon thy village, thou semper paratus knave.
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Interesting question. If he was kicked out of lying about meeting a requirement to hold the rank but yet served in a manor to receive the award(s); does the military have much of a ground to stand on? I guess the statement could be made that if he was truthful from the start he would not have been there and hence never earn that award but it's a touchy subject for sure. Knowing the full answer would be awesome.
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CPO Jon Campbell
I'm hoping a JAG officer might know. I am doing research for a friend who is writing a book. The person in question is a member of a prestigious military society and has many bonified claims to medals, but also has some false claims and a checkered past. Apparently few know that he was actually kicked out of the military.
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I would say yes. Unless the award was earned under fraudulent circumstances, it was earned by the recipient and is theirs to keep.
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Only awards pending or found to be awarded erroneously can be revoked. Anything earned regardless of type of discharge are still yours. In this situation however since this person technically should have never been commissioned due to no college degree any awards given were technically given erroneously.
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When I look at the silver star citation, it is signed by a Captain by direction of the Commander. That seems odd to me. During war stuff can be done in a slap dash way, but I would expect and award that high to at least be signed by the commanding officer. Similarly, an air medal citation is signed by a Lt. by direction.
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LtCol Robert Quinter
Just looked at my Silver Star awarded during VN and it was signed by the Sec of Navy
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MSG John Duchesneau
It sounds a little fishy. Bear in mind that an award is not "official" without the appropriate paperwork. The award certificate alone does not make it official.
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See AR 600-8-22 Military Awards. Paragraph 1-30. This is the current rules, you would have to back track to the reg at the time he was separated.
This contradicts revocation though...note serving in any capacity with the U.S. Army.
3–11. Silver Star
a. The Silver Star, 10 USC 3746, was established by Act of Congress 9 July 1918 (amended by act of 25 July 1963).
b. The Silver Star is awarded to a person who, while serving in any capacity with the U.S. Army, is cited for gallantry in action against an enemy of the United States while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force, or while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party. The required gallantry, while of a lesser degree than that required for the Distinguished Service Cross, must nevertheless have been performed with marked distinction.
c. It is awarded upon letter application to Commander, USAHRC, AHRC–PDO–PA, Alexandria, VA 22332–0471, to those individuals who, while serving in any capacity with the U.S. Army, received a citation for gallantry in action in World War I published in orders issued by a headquarters commanded by a general officer.
- Air Medal (if awarded by competent authority and met criteria)
–3-17. Air Medal
a. The Air Medal was established by Executive Order 9158, 11 May 1942 as amended by Executive Order 9242–A, 11 September 1942.
b. The Air Medal is awarded to any person who, while serving in any capacity in or with the U.S. Army, will havedistinguished himself or herself by meritorious achievement while participating in aerial flight. Awards may be made to recognize single acts of merit or heroism, or for meritorious service as described below.
c. Awards may be made for acts of heroism in connection with military operations against an armed enemy or while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party, which are of a lesser degree than required for award of the Distinguished Flying Cross.
d. Awards may be made for single acts of meritorious achievement, involving superior airmanship, which are of a lesser degree than required for award of the Distinguished Flying Cross, but nevertheless were accomplished with distinction beyond that normally expected.
e. Awards for meritorious service may be made for sustained distinction in the performance of duties involving regular and frequent participation in aerial flight for a period of at least 6 months. In this regard, accumulation of a specified number of hours and missions will not serve as the basis for award of the Air Medal. Criteria in paragraph c, above, concerning conditions of conflict are applicable to award of the Air Medal for meritorious service.
f. Award of the Air Medal is primarily intended to recognize those personnel who are on current crewmember or noncrewmember flying status which requires them to participate in aerial flight on a regular and frequent basis in the performance of their primary duties. However, it may also be awarded to certain other individuals whose combat duties require regular and frequent flying in other than a passenger status, or individuals who perform a particularly noteworthy act while performing the function of a crewmember, but who are not on flying status as prescribed in AR 600–106. These individuals must make a discernible contribution to the operational land combat mission or to the mission of the aircraft in flight. Examples of personnel whose combat duties require them to fly include those in the attack elements of units involved in air-land assaults against an armed enemy and those directly involved in airborne command and control of combat operations. Involvement in such activities, normally at the brigade/group level and below, serves only to establish eligibility for award of the Air Medal; the degree of heroism, meritorious achievement or exemplary service determines who should receive the award. Awards will not be made to individuals who use air transportation solely for the purpose of moving from point to point in a combat zone.
g. Numerals, starting with 2 will be used to denote second and subsequent awards of the Air Medal. (See para 6–4.)
This contradicts revocation though...note serving in any capacity with the U.S. Army.
3–11. Silver Star
a. The Silver Star, 10 USC 3746, was established by Act of Congress 9 July 1918 (amended by act of 25 July 1963).
b. The Silver Star is awarded to a person who, while serving in any capacity with the U.S. Army, is cited for gallantry in action against an enemy of the United States while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force, or while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party. The required gallantry, while of a lesser degree than that required for the Distinguished Service Cross, must nevertheless have been performed with marked distinction.
c. It is awarded upon letter application to Commander, USAHRC, AHRC–PDO–PA, Alexandria, VA 22332–0471, to those individuals who, while serving in any capacity with the U.S. Army, received a citation for gallantry in action in World War I published in orders issued by a headquarters commanded by a general officer.
- Air Medal (if awarded by competent authority and met criteria)
–3-17. Air Medal
a. The Air Medal was established by Executive Order 9158, 11 May 1942 as amended by Executive Order 9242–A, 11 September 1942.
b. The Air Medal is awarded to any person who, while serving in any capacity in or with the U.S. Army, will havedistinguished himself or herself by meritorious achievement while participating in aerial flight. Awards may be made to recognize single acts of merit or heroism, or for meritorious service as described below.
c. Awards may be made for acts of heroism in connection with military operations against an armed enemy or while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party, which are of a lesser degree than required for award of the Distinguished Flying Cross.
d. Awards may be made for single acts of meritorious achievement, involving superior airmanship, which are of a lesser degree than required for award of the Distinguished Flying Cross, but nevertheless were accomplished with distinction beyond that normally expected.
e. Awards for meritorious service may be made for sustained distinction in the performance of duties involving regular and frequent participation in aerial flight for a period of at least 6 months. In this regard, accumulation of a specified number of hours and missions will not serve as the basis for award of the Air Medal. Criteria in paragraph c, above, concerning conditions of conflict are applicable to award of the Air Medal for meritorious service.
f. Award of the Air Medal is primarily intended to recognize those personnel who are on current crewmember or noncrewmember flying status which requires them to participate in aerial flight on a regular and frequent basis in the performance of their primary duties. However, it may also be awarded to certain other individuals whose combat duties require regular and frequent flying in other than a passenger status, or individuals who perform a particularly noteworthy act while performing the function of a crewmember, but who are not on flying status as prescribed in AR 600–106. These individuals must make a discernible contribution to the operational land combat mission or to the mission of the aircraft in flight. Examples of personnel whose combat duties require them to fly include those in the attack elements of units involved in air-land assaults against an armed enemy and those directly involved in airborne command and control of combat operations. Involvement in such activities, normally at the brigade/group level and below, serves only to establish eligibility for award of the Air Medal; the degree of heroism, meritorious achievement or exemplary service determines who should receive the award. Awards will not be made to individuals who use air transportation solely for the purpose of moving from point to point in a combat zone.
g. Numerals, starting with 2 will be used to denote second and subsequent awards of the Air Medal. (See para 6–4.)
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