Posted on Jun 21, 2016
What is the best way to lead a new soldier who is uncertain if they even want to be in the army?
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Second comment that I felt was necessary after reading some of the comments. There is nothing wrong with someone wanting to get out as long as they do their job. I had two commands absolutely berate and attack me for not wanting to re-enlist and a third command who gave me advice and mentorship for the transition to becoming a civilian again. Which command do you think I was more loyal to and willing to give up my free time for? Yes people signed a contract, that doesn't mean they owe their life to the military or even a full 20 years. There is NOTHING wrong with wanting to get out.
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Well honestly I don't know how to answer this question. I can say this though. Make sure they are still doing their job. Don't push leadership stuff on them though. Not everyone is a leader. Make them work hard until they get out. But these people DO NOT need to be instructed on how to get the best eval so they can promote. It's a waste of time. Let them work hard and do good with what they do good. If they don't want in, don't push all of these random eval points on them, they obviously don't want to do it. Let them stay low rank and help people who want to stay in to advance. You will work with them a lot better if you just stop pushing the extra things people do to make rank on them. They don't want it and will despise you for it. They will like you more and work hard for you if you show them you understand how they feel but still need them to put out work for you. Someone getting out doesn't need to have 3 extra activities after the work day is over which shows leadership that you are motivated. There are plenty of hard working people who don't need to be in charge of things. You will see a loyalty you couldn't imagine once you separate "important if staying in" and "this is bull shit busy stuff that accomplishes absolutely nothing except give you a better eval". Protect those that hate the military from the later and they will be loyal. Further, I am not talking about mandatory everyone must do this. I'm talking about those tasks that are required on evals to get good marks. Why fight with someone over something that someone who wants rank will gladly do when you can have this person work hard on the actual job? Now if what I said doesn't make sense, maybe it's a difference in ratings. Intelligence is a lot of work at the computer, the actual job. If this doesn't apply to other ratings/MOS then it's not much of an answer. If it does, listen and you can save a lot of trouble with some people.
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From what I've seen it isn't always an issue of being in the army that's the problem. Some started with bad leadership maybe they picked the wrong mos and feel like there's no going back. If a disciplined soldier I done and doesn't plan to stay in let them out honorably with no benefits. If they shit bag all the time kick them out with other than honorable. Regardless nobody benefits from someone that doesn't want to be there.
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PO2 Joseph Fast
If you treat them right and they are hard workers, they will work hard. Maybe they are simply saying stop pushing eval points on them? They could simply be waiting for their time to be over and wants to do their job, but doesn't want to pick up the excess jobs that show leadership they should be advanced. Not all people who want out are shit bags. When leadership understands that, they have a better chance at making sure no problems result with said service member. There is nothing wrong with wanting to get out.
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The truth is the Army is not for everyone. After truly genuine attempts to rehabilitate him or show him the benefits of military service it is ultimately up to the soldiers to decide whether or not this environment is conducive to his personal needs and wants. Forcing a soldier to stand against his will regardless of whether or not he has signed a contract it's not a good practice. This Soldier is a toxin and he will infect your platoon with his low morale and negative attitude. This will manifest itself during deployment in ways that you cannot imagine and it's nothing but a headache and you end up spending 90% of your time taking care of 10% of your soldiers. I would like for us to be able to rehabilitate soldiers that have this negative attitude but there are times that you have to cut sling load for the good of the organization and the army. I'm not an advocate for teaching soldiers to break their contractual obligations but you have to do a cost and benefit analysis and sometimes contracts have to be renegotiated in the form of the army determining that what it stands for and what the soldier wants are in congruent and both parties need to separate.
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Let him go, you can't fight a war when you have a soldier who is deciding if will obey your orders or not, Hmm let me think if I will take cover under fire or stand around and wait to be shot down, compromising himself and his brothers in arms. Also leads to a total breakdown in discipline.
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PO2 Joseph Fast
Just because someone wants out doesn't mean they will disobey orders. What is this? If you're Christian then you hate gay people? Someone asked a question about a soldier who doesn't want to stay in, not a soldier who was disobeying orders. You can't assume if one is true than the other is also.
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As a leader, it's your job to figure out how to motivate Joe. Yes, there are those that are there just for the college money. These are the ones that you need to take to the side and have a heart to heart conversation with. Explain that they signed a contract which stated they would perform certain things in exchange for money to go to college with. If they fail to meet those performance measures not only will they not get the college money, but their life will suck and be painful. It's their choice if they want to do it the hard way or the easy way. Ultimately, it's Joe's choice if they want to step up. The hard part is with the level of entitlement that kids feel, they have a hard time understanding that they have to work for it.
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For me as a Platoon Leader, I would counsel them in a way to getting to know them, their goals and why they want to be in the military, encourage them to have pride for what they have done to get to this point and empower that solider to strive to rise up to the ranks.
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I was only a specialist. This kid sounds like he's full of quit. If you mentor him and show him that he only has things to gain. He may turn out to be a great soldier. Also explain that his behavior is completely unacceptable. Find a high speed chaplain assistant to motivate him. Maybe someone on his level.
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PO2 Joseph Fast
Wanting to get out is unacceptable? Since when? This is toxic behavior. In my Navy rating we had our intelligence job, then a bunch of mandatory things. We then had "take over your life" eval points of doing completely useless things that only serve to make your eval look good. Plenty of people want to do those. Some people want more time to do their job and if they are getting out, they don't like being taken away from their very important job to do some pointless eval bullshit. I had to tell my commands I wanted out of the military because I wanted to do my job and I didn't care about my eval. Too many people see people who they want to retain and try to force rank on them, well all the excess extras they have to do to make sure rank will come easy. Some people don't want to play that political game and are getting out. I'm not saying this is why this soldier is saying it, but the question was phrased in a manner to suggest the problem was "wanting out" which IS NOT a problem. In the realm of "I'm getting out" far more are doing their job than aren't. You attack someone for wanting out and you'll be creating the problem.
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When I was a team leader back in 05, we had a private fresh outta basic that refused to soldier up. Wouldn't clean his room (to the point it would get disgusting), wouldn't shower, wore dirty uniforms, etc. I tried everything I could think of to get him to snap to, and nothing worked. Finally, he threatened to commit suicide which put him on a 72 hour suicide watch. That'll really make everyone like you when they're giving up their free time to watch you.
I ended up just asking him what the deal was, and to really be honest with me. He said he only joined because he had a fight with his wife (who was still stateside). Well, as we all know, that's a pretty dumb reason to do anything.
So, after trying to explain all the merits of being in the service, I just couldn't bring him around. We ended up having to discharge him which, wasn't all that tough to do given his disciplinary issues at that point, but I wish we had been able to make him soldier up.
I ended up just asking him what the deal was, and to really be honest with me. He said he only joined because he had a fight with his wife (who was still stateside). Well, as we all know, that's a pretty dumb reason to do anything.
So, after trying to explain all the merits of being in the service, I just couldn't bring him around. We ended up having to discharge him which, wasn't all that tough to do given his disciplinary issues at that point, but I wish we had been able to make him soldier up.
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I think you have to ask the Soldier why he wants to get out of the Army first. Find out his or her reasons so you can best guide them; maybe they have very valid reasons ie... family issues, personal growth etc... If the reason is based on a deployment then there is a certain approach; if it's based on the recruiter lied, there is another approach. See my point? Don't make them feel that they are making this impt decision because you telling them to; give them some guidance and suggestions and let it be known to them that this is their decision, their life and you are simply stating your opinion and giving them guidance. Initially, there is a reason they joined to begin with; start with that maybe. I do know one thing; my daughter was very adamant that there was NO WAY that she was reenlisting. I told her that that is her choice; I already knew her reasons, but I also told her that she never knows where her life will be at the time her enlistment is up and to never say Never. Well guess what? She ended up reenlisting anyway due to financial reasons basically. My point is: You never know what is going to happen and just so the Soldiers have some good guidance and not forced guidance, it is ultimately their decision and there should not be any repercussions based on what that decision ends up being :)
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Many of us go through that FTA/I'm getting out phase when we first join. It's a different way of life, and some people aren't used to being 'bossed around'. In their minds, it feels like disrespect. "You ain't gone talk to me all kinda ways. I'm a grown ass man!!" People like this need to be made to understand that the military life is a structured process of rank, authority, expectations, and growth. No one taught me this. I had to learn this, and it probably took me my first 5-7 years in to figure this out.
Soldiers like this most likely just need a good 'sit down' and talking to. Odds are, they'll never get this talk. Instead, they'll just get dragged through the ringer and sent back home, with virtually no chance to do any better than what they doing before they joined. This has become our society's way of dealing with people, taking the easiest way out instead of long term problem solving.
Soldiers like this most likely just need a good 'sit down' and talking to. Odds are, they'll never get this talk. Instead, they'll just get dragged through the ringer and sent back home, with virtually no chance to do any better than what they doing before they joined. This has become our society's way of dealing with people, taking the easiest way out instead of long term problem solving.
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Had a PFC. That wanted out so every payay he would go withdrawal all his pay, go to the co's office and sign it over to him. In order for him to get out. He was still in when I left that unit.
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Kicking people to the curb was not an option in the sixties. If I had booted everyone who didn't really want to be there I would have been the only person in my platoon. lol
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Even though I've been an NCO for a hot minute, I have had a very limited opportunity to mentor junior enlisted (my current unit is only 30 people, all S/NCOs and one officer), but in that time, I have had more than one person voice their displeasure at their career or their circumstances. One of them was me. Back in 2014, I f'ed up bad. I won't go into details, but I was one yes/no decision away from losing a stripe. My Commander saw fit not to take it that far, but boy did I still feel the pain. By that point, I'd lost all hope for my career; I had some hefty paperwork in my PIF, my clearance was threatened, and I'd lost a lot of respect from my peers, not to mention trust from my chain. My supervisor, a crusty E-6 who was a green-to-bluer (Army-to-Air Force) sat me down and had a long conversation with me. I told him straight-up that I was thinking of letting my current enlistment lapse instead of re-upping, and he kicked me in the balls with pure facts. He asked if I had enough savings for my family (my wife was pregnant at the time and unemployed). No. Did I have a job or potential job lined up on the outside? No. Did I have any money for education? Yes (my GI Bill, but it wasn't enough for what I wanted or needed). He asked a few more like this before I got the picture. And he told me, "I'm not telling you what to do. In fact, if you want out, get out. But between now and when your enlistment ends, start getting everything ready."
After that, I hit the books at work (earned the top performer rating not long after), earned some more college credit, took on a subordinate, attended a class, pulled myself out of debt, built up some savings, etc. All with the original intention of being all nice and shiny for when I got out. Turns out that crafty bastard mind-f'd me; doing all that reminded me why I joined in the first place and I was actually thinking less and less about getting out. Actually just extended my enlistment a few months ago through 2017.
My point being, sometimes you gotta get creative with these people. Always offer them the fork in the road; the military doesn't need people with no desire to perform well in it, but the choice will still be theirs to either recognize that they are not fit for service anymore, or to recognize they can improve and start shaping up. And no matter what they choose, as an NCO, it's your job to set them up for success no matter what the choice is.
After that, I hit the books at work (earned the top performer rating not long after), earned some more college credit, took on a subordinate, attended a class, pulled myself out of debt, built up some savings, etc. All with the original intention of being all nice and shiny for when I got out. Turns out that crafty bastard mind-f'd me; doing all that reminded me why I joined in the first place and I was actually thinking less and less about getting out. Actually just extended my enlistment a few months ago through 2017.
My point being, sometimes you gotta get creative with these people. Always offer them the fork in the road; the military doesn't need people with no desire to perform well in it, but the choice will still be theirs to either recognize that they are not fit for service anymore, or to recognize they can improve and start shaping up. And no matter what they choose, as an NCO, it's your job to set them up for success no matter what the choice is.
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A very good question. You need to talk to him. Get yourself ready to have a professional and personal growth counciling. He is probably weighing his options. You need to remember that anything he decides is about himself and not necessarily a condemnation of your leadership skills. Talk to him about what he wanted to achieve through the Army. If he still decides to leave let him know that he still has a job to do until then and assist him with the transition process. I told my guys that whether or not they are still my soldier, they can always come to me with their problems. I still listen whenever my old soldiers need to talk to someone and I've been out for 3 years. Remember that your guys are like family and we don't stop caring because someone moves on.
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Be the leader-> have a counseling session (non-4856) and listen to what they have to say. Sometimes the solution is right there and that soldier just does not see it.
Thats the issue I see in the Army today. Many junior leaders put on stripes and let the power go to their heads. They think from "9-5."
Thats the issue I see in the Army today. Many junior leaders put on stripes and let the power go to their heads. They think from "9-5."
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Always be there for them, make it easy for them to come to you when they need help. If they mess up, tell them what they did wrong and correct them. Make sure they understand there place and that they understand yours. And lat but not least always lead by example, show them that the army in reality isnt all that bad, its not perfect but its what you make of it.
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If they are contemplating leaving the Army so soon into joining, they probably don't know what all the Army has to offer. Their are options to reclassify, there are schools to attend, there are identifiers for many jobs as well. I've seen to many loose motivation and hope and lean on the uncertainty of their former civilian life (when they return to it, they usually regret it). It takes a true leader to address their concerns and aid them in pursuing their goals (through the Army).
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Show Him everything about the army like you were shown and see how much he retains and his he motivated in what he does.
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