Posted on Oct 17, 2016
MAJ Ceo
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Hello all, Army guy here. I've been researching professional development in the different branches for enlisted members. I'm looking to understand how the Navy handles NCO professional development. The Army has Basic Leader Course, Marines have a Corporals Course, Air Force has Airman Leadership School. All have basics of service, counseling, and so on. How is this in the Navy in this area?
Posted in these groups: Petty officer third class %28po3%29  e 4 PO3Petty officer second class %28po2%29  e 5 PO2PO1Master chief petty officer %28mcpo%29  e 9 MCPO
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Responses: 23
PO1 Cryptologic Technician (Technical)
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Edited 9 y ago
What happens is after you find out you are advanced to the next pay grade, your command will set up a time/day to do Petty Officer Indoc; the basis of how to learn to be a leader. After which, you are frocked (meaning you wear the rank but you will not be paid as of yet).
For E4-E6, we don't have a "school"; when you are an E7 or higher, you can elect to take a Leadership school (from my understanding). When you attain the rank of Petty Officer, your senior enlisted look differently at you. While you aren't doing grunt work majority of the time, they expect you to dish out the grunt work and deal with the complaining.

With counseling, are you talking about reprimanding or when we, as the "new" leader, needs assistance with a decision or to get an option from higher leadership? Since I've been a petty officer, my professional relationships with senior enlisted and officer has been very good; they have put a lot of trust into me and with what I can do with my job description. If I'm not able to assist, I do my best in researching a way for the task to be completed 150%.
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MAJ Ceo
MAJ (Join to see)
9 y
Thanks, thats good to know. By counseling I meant uh, our Basic Leader Course teaches the E-4/SPC, E-5/SGT how to counsel, when to counsel such. Performance counseling, event counseling, Fitness failure counseling and so on... I suppose the Army does a lot of counseling.
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PO2 (Other / Not listed)
PO2 (Join to see)
9 y
MAJ (Join to see) - Those are taught in the PO INDOC course They are also taught later by the Chief and LPO
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PO2 Del Bowlby
PO2 Del Bowlby
9 y
Fan Room Counseling 70's
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PO3 Zakia Thiesen
PO3 Zakia Thiesen
9 y
My Command never did PO InDoc with me.
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PO3 Chelisue Stevensdottir
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Every promotion takes passing a course and exam and having appropriate marks on evals
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PO2 John Forzley
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When I served there was a basic Petty Officer Indoctrination, but nothing really to develop true leadership skills except for senior petty officers. I knew of a couple of E-5 that enrolled in the sergeants course on the Marine Corps base.
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What is the first Navy Enlisted/NCO Professional Development course, and what is generally taught there?
PO2 Robert Cuminale
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I made E4 and never received any training.
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PO2 Paul W.
PO2 Paul W.
9 y
"And has your back at all times!"
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PO2 Madison Barrett
PO2 Madison Barrett
9 y
PO2 Robert Cuminale - We had those for our rate (STG) NEETS mods, but not for professional development.
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PO2 Madison Barrett
PO2 Madison Barrett
9 y
PO2 Paul W. - you're thinking of NEETS mods. We had those for our rate (STG) too but not for professional development's that's a whole different animal. For when you made rank.
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PO2 Paul W.
PO2 Paul W.
9 y
Thanks for setting me straight. You are right I guess 50 yrs will do funny things to the memory! Never took the POI course, guess I was a little busy at the time (1966-1969)...LOL!
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SCPO Combat Systems Electronics Leading Petty Officer
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Edited 9 y ago
The course is officially referred to as the Petty Officer Selectee Leadership course. This is for Sailors advanced to E-4. There is also a course for E-5 through E-7. I have a copy of the facilitator material, let me know if this link doesn't work and we'll figure something else out.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/j80bvl2wlwtv4yc/AAD_hYzH59WmVX4WW-gt74bBa?dl=0

Edit: These courses are command facilitated. Every command does it a little differently in how when they conduct the course. For example some may conduct the course prior to results posting and conduct the course for all eligible Sailors, while others may wait till after results are out and conduct it only for those that were advanced.

Unfortunately, the quality of the training is completely dependent on the command conducting it. They used to be actual courses outside of the command that were two weeks long and had much more sustenance and value.
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CWO2 Roger Lamb
CWO2 Roger Lamb
9 y
Admittedly, it has been 24 years since I was active duty Navy. My experience was a 5 day course called Leadership and Management Training in 1979 after I was an E-6 for over a year and a half. Then a course called Leadership and Management Education and Training after about 2 years time in grade as a CPO. And finally a 3 day class at Knife & fork school after commissioning. The Navy wasn't long on school room training on leadership that was more a division/work center OJT responsibility. The basic principle was that with your Petty Officer 3&2 and PO 1 correspondence course and PAR sign offs and recommendation, you were ready, leadership wise, for the next higher rank before you are advanced. In other words it was expected that you would hit the deck running.
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SCPO Combat Systems Electronics Leading Petty Officer
SCPO (Join to see)
9 y
CWO2 Roger Lamb I would say the Navy being not long on formal leadership schooling is just as true these days.
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CWO2 Roger Lamb
CWO2 Roger Lamb
9 y
SCPO (Join to see) - Well Chief I can't say I'm surprised. They spend a lot of time and money on rate training A & C schools and maybe that is why leadership school is neglected. I know They would send some CPOs to Army Leadership School of Senior NCOs and I would have given two weeks pay to attend when I was a CPO.
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PO3 John Pressey
PO3 John Pressey
>1 y
Without you having quantified “used to” I am not sure how long ago “used to” is... LOL

I was in the Navy 1987-1991 USS Vulcan AR-5. We a A trip to GTMO, Med Cruise 89, and Operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm 1990-1991, being our most significant evaluations and deployments.

I made E4 shortly after our Med Cruise 89.... aside from studying the BM3 advancement Manual, and being sent for a small boat handling course, I don’t recall any other training associated!
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PO2 Adrian Richardson
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I serve with 2 branches,the Navy for 23 and the Nat Guard for 8 and I recently retired, As for the Navy back in 83 when I made E4, we had to go to POIC,Petty Officer Ind Class for 1 week of training. It taught us a lot on leadership,professionalism and respect of being a PO, but it doesn't stop there. Each step that you make in the ranks,shows that you earn that spot and respect to teach others who are coming behind you so that they will pass it along to the next sailor thats willing to make that goal.
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MCPO Kurt Stauff
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It changed a lot and had various iterations from 1983 to 2012, when I retired as an MCPO (E9). When you picked up PO3 (E4), you went through a command-facilitated PO Indoc, which was usually week long and usually led by a group of PO1's (E6) from various rates. In addition to basic leadership, new petty officers will discuss values, discipline and Navy standards. The course was developed to educate Sailors in a variety of leadership-related subjects that will help build a foundation for future self-development.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
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Good luck. My son has been Navy for about 10 years, testing for CPO next month, and I'm not sure I still understand it. The big difference in both Officers and Enlisted is that their promotion system is not school based like the Army, so apparently the most important thing is to get all your "Quals" for your job and as much as you can for the next rank, then your evals and test scores determine if you go before the Board.
Most of the education system after A-School seems to be OJT, which also seems to vary in effectiveness between commands and commanders.
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MCPO Aviation Maintenance Technician
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The Coast Guard is essentially built like the Navy with some exceptions. The E-4’s get a small taste of professional development during A-school (a.k.a. AIT). CG members must be an E-3 (SN/FN) to attend A-school. When they graduate they’re automatically promoted to E-4 (PO3). These members will not be allow to test for E-5 (PO2) until they’ve attended a Leadership and Management School (LAMS) and completed other job and military competencies. When E-6’s (PO1) are notified they’re "above the cut" for E-7 (CPO), they’re automatically assigned a Chief Petty Officer’s Academy class attendance date. This is a mandatory 6-week resident course held in Petaluma, CA. Nearly all these members are frocked (wearing the rank but receiving none of the pay) on the day before their class attendance date. They start receiving the pay upon their official advancement date unless other circumstances arises (i.e. disciplinary). Senior Chiefs (E-8) must attend the Command Senior Enlisted Leadership (CSEL) course and be screened prior to being selected for a Command Cadre position. There’s only a handful of Command Senior Chief billets in the fleet. Most are at the E-9 (MCPO) rank for Command Master Chief. (Not all E-9s are Command Master Chiefs. Some aviation Master Chiefs are billeted as Leading Chief Petty Officers (LCPOs) at the biggest air stations mostly.) Some Senior Chiefs and Master Chiefs compete to attend the Army’s Sergeant Major’s Academy in addition to all of the above. These members are usually checking the block to get as much professional development as possible for Gold Badge selection. Gold Badge Command Master Chiefs serves Area and District Commands (VADM-O9 and RADM-O8 level commands) and are more favorably considered for selection to Master Chief Petty Officer of the Coast Guard. Although, all E-9’s are solicited and any E-9 can apply to MCPO-CG.
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PO2 Dax Hall
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Edited >1 y ago
Its really up to your command to send you to Indoc. If you are in a mission essential billet they can forego sending you. I advanced to PO3 directly out of Rescue Swimmer school and PO2 while on det. But all Chiefs go to indoc for sure.
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