Posted on Aug 16, 2017
What is the most appropriate way to address someone being given a false PT score, while minimizing the damage to their career?
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Apologies for my terrible English. Here is the question broken down and explained in what I hope is in better terms.
The situation is that a soldier was given a false pt score by a previous NCO for whatever reasons that he had. The soldier has now changed duty stations and was promoted to Sgt rank. She has not been pinned yet but took a diagnostic pt test and failed the pt test. Now the question is being raised about her really having a 300 pt score and she is scared and has been scared to say anything about the changing of her records. My question is what can she do as for this to not effect her career in a negative way? Especially in light of her not declining the promotion. I do understand that myself knowing what is going on and not saying anything can put me in the same boat as her. I know the wrong answer is to not say anything but what's the best way to go about doing something if anything to minimize the amount of damage done to her or multiple people's careers?
The situation is that a soldier was given a false pt score by a previous NCO for whatever reasons that he had. The soldier has now changed duty stations and was promoted to Sgt rank. She has not been pinned yet but took a diagnostic pt test and failed the pt test. Now the question is being raised about her really having a 300 pt score and she is scared and has been scared to say anything about the changing of her records. My question is what can she do as for this to not effect her career in a negative way? Especially in light of her not declining the promotion. I do understand that myself knowing what is going on and not saying anything can put me in the same boat as her. I know the wrong answer is to not say anything but what's the best way to go about doing something if anything to minimize the amount of damage done to her or multiple people's careers?
Article 15
Fraud
APFT
UCMJ
Promotions
Edited 8 y ago
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 244
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Well CPL, let me ask YOU this. Are you considered an NCO being a CPL? Let me help ya with that answer, YES you are. Now question number two, is this soldier, since she is promotable but nit pinned yet, in your squad? Platoon, Company? Either way, as an NCO yourself, albeit you are kinda an JR NCO in training you are still considered to be in a MCO position with NCO authority as an CPL. So as an NCO and having the authority of an NCO, if I were you, keeping with the spirit and allining yourself within the terms of the NCO creed, which as a CPL I,hope you,k,iw amd understand the NCO creed, you could go amf speak with the/an NCO within her chain of command and make this problem known.
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I would suggest a remedial PT to get her in condition. I would also suggest that she volunteer that the previous PT test results were wrong. Give her one chance, no more.
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Have you ever heard of ethical dilemmas? Do NCOs no longer have any integrity. You are NOT politicians. She is evidently not ready to be an NCO
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As far as the general failure of a PTtesr should be enough to disqualify the soildier. But as leaders I know that NCOs should be held to a higher standard. This is crap that I would expect from a PVT not a potential SGT
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This is beyond unnerving... especially since female personnel have it very easy when it comes to the PT test. I've struggled to meet the standard numerous times and made an honest effort to do well. I probably had a higher raw score than she did yet I'm being held to a different standard because of my gender.
This is the one reason why I cant wait until the ACFT rolls out...
This is the one reason why I cant wait until the ACFT rolls out...
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Giver her a record APFT, if she fails she’s flagged and barred from promotion, if she really wants the stripes, she’ll pass the APFT, as for the old score, water under the bridge, the new score is what counts as far as record.
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If she knows it was a false score she’s honor bound to report it and if she doesn’t you are . That said if the promotion doesn’t require that score coming clean should not be a problem you can always say as soon as it was realized y’all tried to figured out exactly what to do
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Do a re-test with others that are not under her chain of command. But sounds like a fomplete fail all around. NCO’s are & must be held to a higher standard.
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Well let’s see
... as an NCO the ARMY VALUES are always at play integrity is the top of all we do and lies are lies so with that screw her and all that had a part in the lack of integrity to get her there. That is the same person that will later flag one of their own soldiers for failure to pass their own apft
... as an NCO the ARMY VALUES are always at play integrity is the top of all we do and lies are lies so with that screw her and all that had a part in the lack of integrity to get her there. That is the same person that will later flag one of their own soldiers for failure to pass their own apft
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Simple......get rid of the BS give her another PT test. Move out from there. You CV ant control the past but you can the future. If there is an integrity issue....handle it.....if not.....dont wine about it and make a big stink about it.....give the pt test for record and either promote or flag. It's that simple.
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It is a smack in the face to all the soldiers who put in hard work pass the APFT and when soldiers know that leaders are other soldiers are not they lose all respect for them and that is not good for the military
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This was and still is very serious problem with the Army. It’s all on the NCOs to fix this. It’s happened and is still happening every day in uniform. Rank chasers and bullet chasers have they buddie hook them up with a PT score they really didn’t earn.
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Send her my way. Here’s the conversation: This is your only slim chance to survive this. I want a sworn statement from you as to your PT Score of record. If you wish to stand by it, that’s perfectly fine. Sign the statement and meet me at the track. I’ll give you a 15% variance, but less than that and everything is on hold while I conduct a formal investigation. On the other hand, if you now having second thoughts about this whole thing, document the actual events and be prepared to be called as a witness. Your promotion is gone, your career probably is too. But this will at least let you avoid prosecution. I’ll be back in 30 minutes.
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It is a question of integrity you either have it or you don't and she don't as well as anyone who is an accomplice to the situation. There can be no good reason for cheating or falsifying the score. Minimizing the damage will be hard if not impossible. From now on everything she does will have a question mark beside it. That is not the stuff leaders are made of. When I went throught the NCO Academy years ago we had a Sgt and a Ssg whi were caught cheating on the PT test. They were both kicked out of the academy and when they returned to their units they both received Article 15's.
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The NCO who submitted the false score and the soldier tested if she knowingly allowed the false score to move forward should both be discharged after facing charges. There’s no room for a lack of integrity. You are in a precarious situation and without a doubt go to 1stSgt. If he doesn’t do anything then go to the SgtMaj. If he doesn’t do anything go to the CO. If this pattern continues call the SgtMaj of the Army.
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An NCO or potential NCO MUST have integrity and should report this herself! Otherwise she is setting a very bad presidency.
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Integrity is the easiest thing to lose and the hardest to regain. If you’ll pencil whip one piece of paper you’ll pencil whip any piece of pape
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I agree with SGT Gunderson. I would order another PT test to be performed due to change in duty station or unit. However, do make sure is doesn’t have an injury of some sort. I remember maxing my PT test, going to a different duty station, retaking my PT test and failing. I pulled my groin muscle deadlifting. Needless to say, my groom muscle refused to warmup or work with me that day. However, a month later, I was retested and maxed my pt test. The funny thing was, I thought is could warm my muscle up and actually run, maybe not max score run, but run fast enough to pass. The answer to the question was no, evidently I couldn’t run.
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The only POSSIBLE reason I could see for a legit 300 to failure would be if this soldier had transitioned to Ft. Carson and read not given the 30 days to become acclimatized. Beyond that it was pencil whipped for promotion points.
As Top pointed out a test for record, and proceed from there.
As Top pointed out a test for record, and proceed from there.
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