Posted on Aug 16, 2017
CPL Metal Worker
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Apologies for my terrible English. Here is the question broken down and explained in what I hope is in better terms.
The situation is that a soldier was given a false pt score by a previous NCO for whatever reasons that he had. The soldier has now changed duty stations and was promoted to Sgt rank. She has not been pinned yet but took a diagnostic pt test and failed the pt test. Now the question is being raised about her really having a 300 pt score and she is scared and has been scared to say anything about the changing of her records. My question is what can she do as for this to not effect her career in a negative way? Especially in light of her not declining the promotion. I do understand that myself knowing what is going on and not saying anything can put me in the same boat as her. I know the wrong answer is to not say anything but what's the best way to go about doing something if anything to minimize the amount of damage done to her or multiple people's careers?
Edited 8 y ago
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1SG Senior Maintenance Supervisor
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Around 10 years ago, as a PFC in a HQ, I was selected as a grader. I reiterated to the MSG that I wasn’t a NCO but he said my integrity outweighed my rank and to use that when scoring. Needles to say, a LTC in my line failed pushups. The LTC locked me up and told me I was wrong and to fix it; however, the COL in the line next to him didn’t agree. As a PFC, and still intimidated by any officer, I was slightly confused to see a LTC locked up by a COL. In final formation that day I received a coin from the senior CSM.
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SGT Joylynn Jackson
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How I see it is like this, if she can’t pass a pt test she shouldn’t be in the army taking up space. If she is ok with falsifying documents then she doesn’t belong anyway because that will just give a bad example to her present and future soldiers that you don’t have to have integrity and you don’t have to work to maintain the basic standards required of all soldiers. I’d say to fix this make her do extra pt till she passes but if she doesn’t start her separation packet. I personally have a hard time completely condemning her because I don’t know the whole situation of what actually happened. Also I find it hard to fully just blame her because I myself have been forced to make false pt score cards but it was for my at the time warrants and the company commander condoned it, so I honestly feel that until leadership stops doing this how can one blame others for following suit. No it’s not right and I think she needs to go but unfortunately more than just this soldier are doing this and it’s usually seniors who do it. I personally think everyone that does this should be put out but how many warrants, officers, and senior NCOs would actually get called to the carpet for doing the same thing?
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SSG Bfv Section Leader
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LTC William Gilmore
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Well, I think the most important thing she can do is get in shape and pass the PT test!
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SGT Armor Crew Member
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Incorrect, sir, the most important thing is that E-6 Staff Sergeant Smitty make an example of her, bust her ass down to to E-1, put her on rock painting duty, and then call it leadership.
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CPT Company Commander
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Unless the Soldier who took the PT test or the NCO who administered it admits to something, you have nothing to pursue punitive action from a legal point of view. We can speculate all we want, but all the CO can do is require another record PT test. This is why we frequently have Commanders and 1SGs preside and observe record PT tests in a group setting.
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2LT Brian L.
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Someone needs to check the weapons qual too..... jesus
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LTJG Student Naval Aviator (Sna)
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Step 1: remove PT scores from promotion system. Being a PT stud doesnt make you a good leader. Treat Pt as a health and wellnes program and you wont have to worry about ruining careers
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1px xxx
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This is great but it makes too much sense for the army i absolutely agree with this 100 percent but the leaders and their infinite wisdom would sooner require soldiers to be in full battle rattle for a pt test than do something that would be very beneficial for the army especially those soldiers awesome at their jobs but cant or barely pass pt test
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CSM James Winslow
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I certainly agree with the bits here about Integrity and Honesty, but we are still a nation of Laws, and the rule is "Innocent until Proven Guilty". Even in the Army, today. How do you know for certain that the score is false? Did she confide in you? How did you find out that the record was falsified? This is more to this story than is being told here. It is actually an easy fix. A Phone call to her former unit, an email to the commander or other such action to verify the results is the best way ahead. If it turns out the record wasn't falsified, promote her. If there is any question, a commanders inquiry may be in order. But even that may be premature. She was Selected, Trained, Educated and was declared eligible by her previous command. It was a "diagnostic" APFT, not a record, so she remains eligible. Even failing an APFT after being promoted is not grounds for delay of promotion or reduction. If her current command continues to delay her Promotion on the grounds of a failed "Diagnostic" APFT, a visit to the IG is in order.
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GySgt Charles O'Connell
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Sorry, this is extremely poor judgement. She should never have accepted an undeserved score, and now that she is caught out its, how do I fix it time. Here's a couple of leadership principles to pass on, 1). Know yourself, and seek self improvement, "2). Take responsibility for your actions.
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MAJ Infantry Officer
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She needs to come clean now. Yeah, she'll probably lose the promotion but if she was in my unit I'd at least gain some respect for her by coming clean sooner rather than later.
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PFC Jonathan Albano
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Edited 8 y ago
Edit: I posted this before corrections were made to the OP's question so it probably looks out of place. I answered the main question in the comment section of this post.

Rather than ask who's getting the shaft for this, let's run this through the Army's favorite ethical compass; LDRSHIP.

Loyalty- As soldiers, we look out for each-other. Is it looking out for your battle to say they are physically meeting the standard to hold their own in battle if they really aren't?

Duty- It's the duty of Said NCO and Soldier to ensure standards are being met. Is that the case when you falsify records to make it seem like the standard is met when it's not?

Respect- There are people in the unit who passed based off of their own ability. What message does this situation send to others in the unit?

Selfless Service- Again, there are others in the unit, and in the Army as a whole, that met the standard on their own. Is it ok to benefit from falsified records at the expense of your fellow battle buddy?

Honor- Every day, soldiers strive to be a credit to the uniform. Does this sort of behavior enhance the image of the Army, or do our institution injustice?

Integrity- All anybody has in life is their word. How good is the word of somebody who would falsify, or go along with falsifying a career deciding document?

Personal Courage- Part of the Army, let alone life, is being willing to own one's actions and accept the consequences for them. In accepting fabricated results, is this hypothetical soldier doing that?

In my mind, what will happen is an irrelevant question that is up to Commander's discretion. Should this be reported is the question that I'd be asking.
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CPL Metal Worker
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True but there are many different ways of reporting something's. Should there be steps taken such as refusing the promotion and explaining this is why or should it just be an outright look this is what happened?
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PFC Jonathan Albano
PFC Jonathan Albano
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CPL (Join to see) - If said soldier will report it, that would probably be the best possible outcome as it would show an amount of Integrity. Refusing the promotion seems like an irrelevant step as they will, most likely, not get it anyway when the truth comes out. They are going to get in trouble in this scenario- there's just no avoiding that, however, many Commanders will show leniency if the Soldier comes forward on their own volition rather than the Commander hearing from a third party. I will add that the sooner it's said, the better it will look for them.
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CW2 Counterintelligence Technician
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PFC Albano, I promise I didn't plagiarize your reply. :)
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