Posted on Aug 16, 2017
What is the most appropriate way to address someone being given a false PT score, while minimizing the damage to their career?
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Apologies for my terrible English. Here is the question broken down and explained in what I hope is in better terms.
The situation is that a soldier was given a false pt score by a previous NCO for whatever reasons that he had. The soldier has now changed duty stations and was promoted to Sgt rank. She has not been pinned yet but took a diagnostic pt test and failed the pt test. Now the question is being raised about her really having a 300 pt score and she is scared and has been scared to say anything about the changing of her records. My question is what can she do as for this to not effect her career in a negative way? Especially in light of her not declining the promotion. I do understand that myself knowing what is going on and not saying anything can put me in the same boat as her. I know the wrong answer is to not say anything but what's the best way to go about doing something if anything to minimize the amount of damage done to her or multiple people's careers?
The situation is that a soldier was given a false pt score by a previous NCO for whatever reasons that he had. The soldier has now changed duty stations and was promoted to Sgt rank. She has not been pinned yet but took a diagnostic pt test and failed the pt test. Now the question is being raised about her really having a 300 pt score and she is scared and has been scared to say anything about the changing of her records. My question is what can she do as for this to not effect her career in a negative way? Especially in light of her not declining the promotion. I do understand that myself knowing what is going on and not saying anything can put me in the same boat as her. I know the wrong answer is to not say anything but what's the best way to go about doing something if anything to minimize the amount of damage done to her or multiple people's careers?
Edited 8 y ago
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 244
CPL,
As a CSM I ran into this with some of my FTUS (Full timers). I caught them doctoring their own test one day out back of the unit bldg. Having been given a heads up on this I had only one response, write them up, formally counsel them and pass this own to my JAG for Article 15 actions. Sorry to say that I have no need for anyone Soldier and especially an NCO that has no integrity or inclination to not have the courage to say no to such things. The Soldier's actions of failing to correct the wrong for whatever reason doesn't enter the equation. If she full well knew what was done she should have fixed then and reported it to her Superior. The military has a hard enough in the Reserve and Guard with APFT failures, this is worse. Deal with it or you comprise your integrity as a Leader by not correcting it!
CSM(R) Vincent
As a CSM I ran into this with some of my FTUS (Full timers). I caught them doctoring their own test one day out back of the unit bldg. Having been given a heads up on this I had only one response, write them up, formally counsel them and pass this own to my JAG for Article 15 actions. Sorry to say that I have no need for anyone Soldier and especially an NCO that has no integrity or inclination to not have the courage to say no to such things. The Soldier's actions of failing to correct the wrong for whatever reason doesn't enter the equation. If she full well knew what was done she should have fixed then and reported it to her Superior. The military has a hard enough in the Reserve and Guard with APFT failures, this is worse. Deal with it or you comprise your integrity as a Leader by not correcting it!
CSM(R) Vincent
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Wow, that's a tough call...but only speaking for myself, I would do the honorable thing and just suck it up and say something because that is how I was brought up and that is Honor with the Army...we "shouldn't" lie, cheat nor steal. She has to look at herself every day in the mirror.....
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I never could understand why people would pencil whip their PT scores, just stay in shape. Even today, after nearly 8 years of retirement, I can still max my push ups and sit ups. While I still run, I would need some time to get my run time down to an acceptable (for me) time. A habit I started in college during ROTC, I would do three sets of 30 push ups and sit ups each morning. I would knock out 30 push ups, roll over and do 30 sit ups and repeat two more sets. Takes about 5 minutes today to do my sets.
When I was in an AC/RC position and let senior officers and NCOs take their own PT tests in small groups, I was amazed at the amount of soldiers that returned with a stack of PT cards, but on a June Saturday morning, were bone dry. At least come back sweaty and look like you just finished a run. I had one major throw a fit when a second group of majors show up bone dry with PT cards. Her group looked like a typical group of soldiers that just finished a PT test. The other group claimed they had just returned from Doughboy Field (the PT field), but she said her group was just there and they did not see the second group. I told that group to try again.
An easy way to double check a PT test is by run time. If a soldier just wants to do the minimum 180 points with 60 in each event, it is easy to stop when the grader calls out the exact number of repetitions required for your push ups or sit ups. Just get to that number and stop. But if your run time is 18:20 (for example) and your PT run time is exactly 18:20, you are extremely good, very lucky or you pencil whipped the score.
If you came in one second late at 18:21, you'd have scored 59 points and failed. If you ran maybe 5-6 seconds faster, you would have scored 61 points, one more than you needed.
Also, I was an avid runner, running about 35-40 miles a week, competing in 5k and 10ks and an occasional half marathon. I knew who was faster than me and who wasn't. Bring me a PT score card that is better than my 2 mile run time and you look like you can't run to your car without getting winded, I'm going to question your results.
When I was in an AC/RC position and let senior officers and NCOs take their own PT tests in small groups, I was amazed at the amount of soldiers that returned with a stack of PT cards, but on a June Saturday morning, were bone dry. At least come back sweaty and look like you just finished a run. I had one major throw a fit when a second group of majors show up bone dry with PT cards. Her group looked like a typical group of soldiers that just finished a PT test. The other group claimed they had just returned from Doughboy Field (the PT field), but she said her group was just there and they did not see the second group. I told that group to try again.
An easy way to double check a PT test is by run time. If a soldier just wants to do the minimum 180 points with 60 in each event, it is easy to stop when the grader calls out the exact number of repetitions required for your push ups or sit ups. Just get to that number and stop. But if your run time is 18:20 (for example) and your PT run time is exactly 18:20, you are extremely good, very lucky or you pencil whipped the score.
If you came in one second late at 18:21, you'd have scored 59 points and failed. If you ran maybe 5-6 seconds faster, you would have scored 61 points, one more than you needed.
Also, I was an avid runner, running about 35-40 miles a week, competing in 5k and 10ks and an occasional half marathon. I knew who was faster than me and who wasn't. Bring me a PT score card that is better than my 2 mile run time and you look like you can't run to your car without getting winded, I'm going to question your results.
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Why is someone who is willing to submit a false PT test score to get a promotion careers worth saving?
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I am a retiree, and a former inspector general. I recommend someone contact the inspector general at her current chain of command to investigate this situation. The soldier is definitely at fault if she had knowledge of the false PT test. However, the bigger problem is the NCO who gave her the test. That individual’s career should be stopped in its tracks, and no one in the current chain of command has any authority over that NCO. The IG can reach across multiple installations, conduct a professional investigation, and most importantly document findings in a permanent database. The grader’s career should stop in its tracks. They may not get discharged, but may not receive another promotion when a centralized board conducts a records screening.
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As a soldier as a human being total and rigorous honesty, is critical. no other option.
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CPL, best wishes in this. It's a touchy subject.
You aren't allowed to call out a 300+ APFT female when she fails...that's sexist.
You aren't allowed to call out a 300+ APFT female when she fails...that's sexist.
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This is a ongoing situation these days. When I served, I was the Command PT Coordinator and failed personnel consistently. What happened next was to see this person transfer to another unit and get promoted and when I brought this up the higher ups, somehow it got changed in the computer system by Administration. I'm glad I had hard copies (paperwork) that justified my suspicion that someone is changing failures to passing scores. Needles to say I resigned my position at PT Coordinator that I wasn't going to be part of unethical conduct especially when I'm out there busting my ass to make sure I had a good passing score to lead by example. I think this happens in all branches of service. Now that I'm retired, I hope that it get better but I don't think it will change especially if they have a buddy in Admin. Best advice is stay ethical and if you or someone is given a false score, speak up immediately and be true to yourself and your Branch of Service. Thanks for reading my thoughts on this subject.
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