Posted on Aug 16, 2017
What is the most appropriate way to address someone being given a false PT score, while minimizing the damage to their career?
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Apologies for my terrible English. Here is the question broken down and explained in what I hope is in better terms.
The situation is that a soldier was given a false pt score by a previous NCO for whatever reasons that he had. The soldier has now changed duty stations and was promoted to Sgt rank. She has not been pinned yet but took a diagnostic pt test and failed the pt test. Now the question is being raised about her really having a 300 pt score and she is scared and has been scared to say anything about the changing of her records. My question is what can she do as for this to not effect her career in a negative way? Especially in light of her not declining the promotion. I do understand that myself knowing what is going on and not saying anything can put me in the same boat as her. I know the wrong answer is to not say anything but what's the best way to go about doing something if anything to minimize the amount of damage done to her or multiple people's careers?
The situation is that a soldier was given a false pt score by a previous NCO for whatever reasons that he had. The soldier has now changed duty stations and was promoted to Sgt rank. She has not been pinned yet but took a diagnostic pt test and failed the pt test. Now the question is being raised about her really having a 300 pt score and she is scared and has been scared to say anything about the changing of her records. My question is what can she do as for this to not effect her career in a negative way? Especially in light of her not declining the promotion. I do understand that myself knowing what is going on and not saying anything can put me in the same boat as her. I know the wrong answer is to not say anything but what's the best way to go about doing something if anything to minimize the amount of damage done to her or multiple people's careers?
Article 15
Fraud
APFT
UCMJ
Promotions
Edited 8 y ago
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 244
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The damage or lack thereof is not your concern. You do what needs to be done and drive on. She knowingly did the wrong thing. Whatever fallout happens, happens. She deserves whatever she gets. You don't cheat on a PT test. You just don't. We work our asses off to earn those scores and it is not fair to get an inflated score simply for doing the wrong thing because at any point your fitness may influence an outcome in the field. Similar to if someone says you can shoot a gun and hit a target and you cannot. If you cannot field strip a weapon and hit the damned target, then you don't get qualified because that would make you a deficit to your team. Protecting someone like that is not in anyone's best interests. She should have thought of the consequences of her actions before the crap hit the fan. SMDH.
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Well that goes against the army values..LDRSHIP.. not to say about the NCO CREED.
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Send her to see a doctor. I'm sure she will likely come up with shin splints during her recovery. She could be given a temp profile which could allow her some time to get back in shape. She is in control of her own destiny, so its all on her to get back to being fit. There are some commands that need to be shaken up so should the ball drop its their own fault. Such a thing shouldn't occur in today's military. There are still waiting lines to get in. A dirtbag is just that, plus a burden on the entire team, especially moral because the word is already out, I guarantee it!
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CPL George S.
This is an integrity issue. Either she should not be an NCO or better. She takes the promotion and embraces her responsibilities. She should be running light poles for 4 miles three days a week and lifting weights 3 days a week. Hopefully she learns pencil wiping readiness and promotable criteria hurt her and her unit. With luck she will not fail her troops the way she has been failed. If she wants to lead she needs to learn to and not be Ms. Nice NCO. Sometimes the best way we can lead is to punch someone in the testicles or breasts, knock them down, then give them a hand up, dust them off and help them in the right direction. Over the long term this will not damage her career no matter how it pans out. Every good SNCO I know and have worked with had NJP as a young soldier.
V/R
Crusty MSGT
This is an integrity issue. Either she should not be an NCO or better. She takes the promotion and embraces her responsibilities. She should be running light poles for 4 miles three days a week and lifting weights 3 days a week. Hopefully she learns pencil wiping readiness and promotable criteria hurt her and her unit. With luck she will not fail her troops the way she has been failed. If she wants to lead she needs to learn to and not be Ms. Nice NCO. Sometimes the best way we can lead is to punch someone in the testicles or breasts, knock them down, then give them a hand up, dust them off and help them in the right direction. Over the long term this will not damage her career no matter how it pans out. Every good SNCO I know and have worked with had NJP as a young soldier.
V/R
Crusty MSGT
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Unless there is absolute proof little can be done. Would be tough to even have changed down. You can not just jam 2 PT tests back to back and then try to kick out. There is absolutley not nearly enough info here to know what action to take. She failed a dio, nit a record. relax.
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SFC Wendell Pruitt
I have been out 25 years but I agree with you 100%, In my day I saw plenty of people with 300 scores when they arrived and watched the majority drop down to 240 to 260 range on the first official one in the new unit. I also saw what I suspected to be pencil whipped results that when questions were asked I was told by higher to get back in my lane it was not my concern unless the troop was directly under me and I had hard fast proof. Personally I believe far to much weight is given to a test that is easily manipulated in multiple ways and at varying levels for a wide variety of reasons
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Take action for what she does as a new leader in a new duty station. Not for what is perceived to have or have not occurred at the previous duty station as apparently there could have been failed leadership as well. Perhaps she thought being a diagnostic she felt she could slack off and fail or maybe she had been drinking and slacked off throughout the transition of duty stations. Too may what ifs here. Without all the facts you can't make an accurate judgment of what actually happened. Yes I know I was only an E4P when I left but I have held leadership and command positions in law enforcement so I do have a little to say on the subject. That is my two cents on the subject.
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What proof do you have. It could have been legit. Without proof or confessing you have nothing to stop it.
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I think the biggest issue is when we see leadership only being graded by certain people. It sets a tone amonth the soldiers. I saw an environment where junior enlisted were called out about PT scores but never heard about the PSG or PL etc. At the end of the day no matter the job you should practice what you preach and if you talk the talk as a leader you better walk the walk. If you aren’t a PT stud then don’t act like your rank allows you to be an a SME about PT. It takes a great leader to know where their shortcomings are.
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SFC Michael Howell
I had a simple policy for many years: I will take an APFT anytime I am asked to do so. I will pass at all times with or without notice. Anyone that desires to grade me is welcome. The APFT standards are simple to understand and they explicitly state that the SM is required to meet them at all times. If you as a Soldier in my platoon want me to take PT test we can take one together.
I don't understand all of the complaints about no time to prepare or not enough notice. You were put on notice the day you started basic training that you are required to meet APFT standards.
I don't understand all of the complaints about no time to prepare or not enough notice. You were put on notice the day you started basic training that you are required to meet APFT standards.
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