Posted on Oct 23, 2015
SSG Timothy Sharpe
61.1K
625
322
30
29
1
What is it that the cadre and policy makers in NCOES schools think they are accomplishing by suppressing 240 years of culture. Secondly, I don't know of anyone who after the school was like "oh I better not cuss now I'm a warrior leader"
Avatar feed
Responses: 142
Votes
  • Newest
  • Oldest
  • Votes
SFC Senior Small Group Leader (Ssgl)
3
3
0
It's a professionalism block. Most Soldiers drop an F-bomb from time to time but many don't have any other vocabulary than 4 letter words. The school house; weather PME, or
MOS schools is a time to reinforce the fact that we are proffesionals and need to communicate as such
(3)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSG Gerald King
2
2
0
Profanity is NEVER needed to get your point across! I rarely ever swear and when I do, it is usually when I am alone and I am cussing out this dang computer!
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
CW4 Angel C.
2
2
0
Well the point is that being an NCO or Officer is a big responsibility so it's a way to remind you that you are a professional. I think it's acceptable around your friends but not around others and specially not around minors or civilians.
(2)
Comment
(0)
SPC Carson S.
SPC Carson S.
>1 y
Well put, sir. Professionalism is a must when it comes to being a leader.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SSG Technical Inspector
2
2
0
#1 you are in a professional environment
#2 as well as in a professional business "ARMY"
#3 if one cannot control his/her self for a short period in an environment where one is to present themselves professionally (i.e. Academy). How can one be expected and/or trusted to go out and lead, mentor, and train young Soldiers professionally.

What gets me is that so quickly Soldiers (NCO's) forget they are PROFESSIONALS...
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SFC Patricia Zechel
2
2
0
Maybe its time for the cadre and the policy makers in NCOES schools to start suppressing a 240 years of culture. From a Biblical standpoint, when a person is cursing, it causes bitterness and not for the goodness (grace) of the person who is cursing; and specially, it causes bitterness to the person who is listening to it. Also I would like to post this scripture about Taming the Tongue. It comes from the book of James 3:1-12 KJV:
3 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
3 Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
So if anyone one who thinks profanity is a cool thing and thinks it builds people esteem up, well..think again.
(2)
Comment
(0)
CSM Troy McGilvray
CSM Troy McGilvray
>1 y
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
CSM Harold Burleson
2
2
0
In reference to your comment on "suppressing 240 years of culture" I think you are referring to a Culture of Profanity you think is acceptable in our military ranks: Since listening to my Mentors decades ago from the Cold War and believing in them by following their Lead, I have been a Big Fan of the "No Profanity" common sense approach. Teaching our Warrior Leaders to Stand Up and give a Clean Speech to a mixed audience of military personnel and civilians is a Challenge that must be overcome at the primary level. After all, these young warriors are our future and we want them to be the very best in the business of representing our military on a professional level. They will not have to hesitate or be fearful of speaking when someone shove a microphone and camera in their face in an attempt to broadcast the information to a wide-range of listeners and viewers, maybe worldwide or presented on social media. Long Story Short; would you want to stand up and give a speech to a broad audience with your speech interlaced with profanity? If the answer is Yes, then I would like to be in the audience and have a word of prayer with you afterwards. You will have a life changing experience for the good, thanks to someone that deeply cares about others!
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SFC Don Ward
2
2
0
You obviously don't know what the word "culture" means. The Army does not have a culture of bad language, any more than the infantry has a culture of growing idiots. Words do mean something, and if you have to rely on profanity you need to go back to school.
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
MSgt Daniel Attilio
2
2
0
I cannot recall any of the instructors at Career Course or Advance Course employing profanity as element in conveying ideas and lessons. Nor can I think back to those leaders I considered impressive as resorting to profanity to get a message across. Sure it came out occasionally and then there were the rare times you were bathed in profanity but that was not in groups, it was always a heated and targeted application. Profanity is not a norm amongst professionals.
(2)
Comment
(0)
SSG Byron Hewett
SSG Byron Hewett
>1 y
Semper Fi
(1)
Reply
(0)
SGT James Bretney
SGT James Bretney
>1 y
Profanity is the norm if you are under extreme stress like gunfire
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
CPT Manager
2
2
0
Cussing, swearing while being unprofessional adds to the aire of intimidation. What kind of results, as a leader, do you get when you intimidate?
(2)
Comment
(0)
SGT James Bretney
SGT James Bretney
>1 y
a leader who dominates

stay in your lane officer
(0)
Reply
(0)
CPT Manager
CPT (Join to see)
>1 y
SGT James Bretney a leader that dominated, is not that approachable, bad for the soldiers, rotten for the mission.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SGT James Bretney
SGT James Bretney
>1 y
whatever

If the NCO uses foul language, too bad. So what? there are worse things.

Political correctness kills more soldiers than the enemy.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Capt Jeff S.
2
2
0
Edited 10 y ago
Profanity should be used sparingly. There is a time and place for everything and Gen Patton understood that much very well -- at least when it came to motivating his troops.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
George S. Patton's speech to the Third Army:

"Be seated.

Men, all this stuff you hear about America not wanting to fight, wanting to stay out of the war, is a lot of bullshit. Americans love to fight. All real Americans love the sting and clash of battle. When you were kids, you all admired the champion marble shooter, the fastest runner, the big-league ball players and the toughest boxers. Americans love a winner and will not tolerate a loser. Americans play to win all the time. That's why Americans have never lost and will never lose a war. The very thought of losing is hateful to Americans. Battle is the most significant competition in which a man can indulge. It brings out all that is best and it removes all that is base.

You are not all going to die. Only two percent of you right here today would be killed in a major battle. Every man is scared in his first action. If he says he's not, he's a goddamn liar. But the real hero is the man who fights even though he's scared. Some men will get over their fright in a minute under fire, some take an hour, and for some it takes days. But the real man never lets his fear of death overpower his honor, his sense of duty to his country, and his innate manhood.

All through your army career you men have bitched about what you call 'this chicken-shit drilling.' That is all for a purpose—to ensure instant obedience to orders and to create constant alertness. This must be bred into every soldier. I don't give a fuck for a man who is not always on his toes. But the drilling has made veterans of all you men. You are ready! A man has to be alert all the time if he expects to keep on breathing. If not, some German son-of-a-bitch will sneak up behind him and beat him to death with a sock full of shit. There are four hundred neatly marked graves in Sicily, all because one man went to sleep on the job—but they are German graves, because we caught the bastard asleep before his officer did.

An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, and fights as a team. This individual hero stuff is bullshit. The bilious bastards who write that stuff for the Saturday Evening Post don't know any more about real battle than they do about fucking. And we have the best team—we have the finest food and equipment, the best spirit and the best men in the world. Why, by God, I actually pity these poor bastards we're going up against.

All the real heroes are not storybook combat fighters. Every single man in the army plays a vital role. So don't ever let up. Don't ever think that your job is unimportant. What if every truck driver decided that he didn't like the whine of the shells and turned yellow and jumped headlong into a ditch? That cowardly bastard could say to himself, 'Hell, they won't miss me, just one man in thousands.' What if every man said that? Where in the hell would we be then? No, thank God, Americans don't say that. Every man does his job. Every man is important. The ordnance men are needed to supply the guns, the quartermaster is needed to bring up the food and clothes for us because where we are going there isn't a hell of a lot to steal. Every last damn man in the mess hall, even the one who boils the water to keep us from getting the GI shits, has a job to do.

Each man must think not only of himself, but think of his buddy fighting alongside him. We don't want yellow cowards in the army. They should be killed off like flies. If not, they will go back home after the war, goddamn cowards, and breed more cowards. The brave men will breed more brave men. Kill off the goddamn cowards and we'll have a nation of brave men.

One of the bravest men I saw in the African campaign was on a telegraph pole in the midst of furious fire while we were moving toward Tunis. I stopped and asked him what the hell he was doing up there. He answered, 'Fixing the wire, sir.' 'Isn't it a little unhealthy up there right now?' I asked. 'Yes sir, but this goddamn wire has got to be fixed.' I asked, 'Don't those planes strafing the road bother you?' And he answered, 'No sir, but you sure as hell do.' Now, there was a real soldier. A real man. A man who devoted all he had to his duty, no matter how great the odds, no matter how seemingly insignificant his duty appeared at the time.

And you should have seen the trucks on the road to Gabès. Those drivers were magnificent. All day and all night they crawled along those son-of-a-bitch roads, never stopping, never deviating from their course with shells bursting all around them. Many of the men drove over 40 consecutive hours. We got through on good old American guts. These were not combat men. But they were soldiers with a job to do. They were part of a team. Without them the fight would have been lost.

Sure, we all want to go home. We want to get this war over with. But you can't win a war lying down. The quickest way to get it over with is to get the bastards who started it. We want to get the hell over there and clean the goddamn thing up, and then get at those purple-pissing Japs. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we go home. The shortest way home is through Berlin and Tokyo. So keep moving. And when we get to Berlin, I am personally going to shoot that paper-hanging son-of-a-bitch Hitler.

When a man is lying in a shell hole, if he just stays there all day, a Boche will get him eventually. The hell with that. My men don't dig foxholes. Foxholes only slow up an offensive. Keep moving. We'll win this war, but we'll win it only by fighting and showing the Germans that we've got more guts than they have or ever will have. We're not just going to shoot the bastards, we're going to rip out their living goddamned guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy Hun cocksuckers by the bushel-fucking-basket.

Some of you men are wondering whether or not you'll chicken out under fire. Don't worry about it. I can assure you that you'll all do your duty. War is a bloody business, a killing business. The Nazis are the enemy. Wade into them, spill their blood or they will spill yours. Shoot them in the guts. Rip open their belly. When shells are hitting all around you and you wipe the dirt from your face and you realize that it's not dirt, it's the blood and gut of what was once your best friend, you'll know what to do.

I don't want any messages saying 'I'm holding my position.' We're not holding a goddamned thing. We're advancing constantly and we're not interested in holding anything except the enemy's balls. We're going to hold him by his balls and we're going to kick him in the ass; twist his balls and kick the living shit out of him all the time. Our plan of operation is to advance and keep on advancing. We're going to go through the enemy like shit through a tinhorn.

There will be some complaints that we're pushing our people too hard. I don't give a damn about such complaints. I believe that an ounce of sweat will save a gallon of blood. The harder we push, the more Germans we kill. The more Germans we kill, the fewer of our men will be killed. Pushing harder means fewer casualties. I want you all to remember that. My men don't surrender. I don't want to hear of any soldier under my command being captured unless he is hit. Even if you are hit, you can still fight. That's not just bullshit either. I want men like the lieutenant in Libya who, with a Luger against his chest, swept aside the gun with his hand, jerked his helmet off with the other and busted the hell out of the Boche with the helmet. Then he picked up the gun and he killed another German. All this time the man had a bullet through his lung. That's a man for you!

Don't forget, you don't know I'm here at all. No word of that fact is to be mentioned in any letters. The world is not supposed to know what the hell they did with me. I'm not supposed to be commanding this army. I'm not even supposed to be in England. Let the first bastards to find out be the goddamned Germans. Some day, I want them to rise up on their piss-soaked hind legs and howl 'Ach! It's the goddamned Third Army and that son-of-a-bitch Patton again!'

Then there's one thing you men will be able to say when this war is over and you get back home. Thirty years from now when you're sitting by your fireside with your grandson on your knee and he asks, 'What did you do in the great World War Two?' You won't have to cough and say, 'Well, your granddaddy shoveled shit in Louisiana.' No sir, you can look him straight in the eye and say 'Son, your granddaddy rode with the great Third Army and a son-of-a-goddamned-bitch named George Patton!'

All right, you sons of bitches. You know how I feel. I'll be proud to lead you wonderful guys in battle anytime, anywhere. That's all."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_S._Patton%27s_speech_to_the_Third_Army
(2)
Comment
(0)
CW3 David Covey
CW3 David Covey
>1 y
Always loved that speech.. Great motivation.. Part of why I wanted to enlist. Not one commander today would dare give a speech like that..
(2)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SSG Carlos Madden
2
2
0
Professionalism and the NCO Creed. "No one is More Proffesional than I"
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
CSM Charles Hayden
2
2
0
Edited 10 y ago
SSG Timothy Sharpe That was, is, and continues to be "official" policy. In 1966, a CSM had a talk w/ me abt my verbiage. I recall saying, Yes , Sergeant Major! I still cannot recall what he was talking abt!

Damn; now I recall a later CSM having similar words w/ me abt my addressing him as a ??????
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SGT Jimmy Carpenter
2
2
0
I went through PLDC in 1996 I think and there was a no profanity rule in place then. Being a grunt, it was very difficult to refrain from profanity but I managed. It's understandable the reasoning behind it, it's considered "unprofessional" to use profanity, even (probably) more so in the civilian world.
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SFC Everett Oliver
2
2
0
Warrior Leader? Is that what we call it today? SMH.....

As best I can remember this started way back in 91 when as an Operations Sergeant in an AIT Training Company we were told not to use derogatory comments toward the students nor were we to smoke within site of the students. The stupidity of it all was one of the reasons I retired....
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SFC G2 Ops Mcp Ncoic
1
1
0
As a US Army Soldier I agreed to follow the rules and regulations. It is against UCMJ to use any indecent language, under ARTICLE 134. "Indecent" language is that which is grossly offensive to modesty, decency, or propriety, or shocks the moral sense, because of its vulgar, filthy, or disgusting nature, or its tendency to incite lustful thought. Language is indecent if it tends reasonably to corrupt morals or incite libidinous thoughts. The language must violate community standards. See paragraph 87 if the communication was made in the physical presence of a child.". I agreed to following these orders. There is no stipulation in my contract that I can follow only the rules that I agree with. Do I agree with the rule. I actually do. If you are not discipline to control what comes out of your mouth, than how can I trust you will be discipline enough with a finger on the trigger.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
CW2 Michael Mullikin
1
1
0
Consider what our Army is doing to us:
• No swearing or other harsh language.
• No smoking, chewing or inhaling.
• Minimal drinking, most clubs have been closed.
• No fraternizing with the opposite sex, at least without a pre-contact agreement approved by and filed with JAG.
• Fraternizing with the same sex? No definitive guidance yet, but probably approved.
• No support for human trafficing. You have to get to the second to last paragraph of the policy letter to find out that patronizing prostitutes is not compatible with service in the US Army.
• Wearing of tattoos must be strictly regulated.
I couold go on, but I think you get the idea. Our leadership and its politically correct advisors are trying to transform the army into either Oliver Cromwell's New Model Puritan Army, the knights Templar or Hospitaller, the Theban Sacred Band.

One last question: what does any of this have to do with our army's ability to close with and destroy the enemy utilizing firepower, maneuver and shock effect?
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
CW2 Michael Mullikin
1
1
0
Reminds me of the time I was a tank commander and a chaplain came around to explain, using most of the arguments seen here. I advised that there are times, as when a main gun shell casing splits, sends a yellow fireball back into the turret, and turns all the exposed hair on everyone's bodies into fine grey ash—well, at times like those an "Oh, darn" or "Oh, drat" just doesn't seem very satisfying. I'm pleased to report that after consideration the chaplain agreed with me. When on of our young warriors is at the range and, forgetting where his muzzle is pointing, rips a three-round burst along the firing line what do you say? "Oh jinkies, Bob, PLEASE try to be more careful!!

The 1SG in the next post makes the point that it is a NEW generation and we must adapt. Some of us are old enough to remember the 60's and 70's when it really was a new generation which we persuaded to adapt to the military.

When you find that your trans-gendered driver has been kidnapped by the enemy and raped to death it will be important to carefully consider your remarks because we all know that hatred of the enemy is unprofessional.
(1)
Comment
(0)
SSG Katherine Likely
SSG Katherine Likely
>1 y
I joined in 78 and my feeling is this - if i don't like the tone of the conversation I have the opportunity to give the negative mouth swearing genius with a bar of soap or simply walk away.

However, to answer your question - "When on of our young warriors is at the range and, forgetting where his muzzle is pointing, rips a three-round burst along the firing line what do you say?"

After taking his weapon - As calmly as I could muster, which would not be rated calm in a peaceful seance - I would say, "What the fuck do you think you are doing?" and then stand there starring at them with a mean glare - while they stammered out a response.
(1)
Reply
(0)
CW2 Michael Mullikin
CW2 Michael Mullikin
>1 y
Roger that, SSG Likely!
(1)
Reply
(0)
A1C Melissa Jackson
A1C Melissa Jackson
>1 y
I recently had a run in on here when I said I did not give a damn about something and some people who did not agree with my point of view both had mini-strokes because I resorted to "profanity"- they decided at once that I was a liberal (I am.) and when liberals cannot make a real argument they resort to profanity- then one of them extrapolated that since I used such an awful swear I must be ATHIEST!
Goodness. When I pointed out that such extreme reactions to the word: "damn" seemed a little startling from people who have served in the military- the marine threw out that people don't talk like that in the military- it is called professionalism.

Huh.
On my first day in the military I was called a (quotes~>) "stupid fucking bitch that doesn't have the brains God gave a cockroach" I did not feel at the time it would suit my purposes to scold the SSGT for her lack of professionalism. I fixed myself and got the HELL out of her way.

To this day I am wounded by this lack of professionalism---TO THIS DAY! Hell- if I weren't already 100% I might have to apply for a rating.
(0)
Reply
(0)
CW2 Michael Mullikin
CW2 Michael Mullikin
8 y
CW2 Michael Mullikin - When I was in basic I had a young hero squeeze off a couple of rounds which went into the dirt about two feet away from me. The drill sergeant walked up to the young man, who was prone at the time, snatched away his rifle, cleared it then beat him (hard) on the helmet three time with the butt end. After he was finished the drill sergeant said, "You are some kind of world-class dumb shit!'
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SSG Paul Ellis
1
1
0
It's the new PC Army (which admittedly had it's start back in the late '90s.) Just because you don't cuss doesn't make you more "professional." It makes you more socially acceptable. In part, it's good manners. (You don't cuss up a storm while you're having lunch in a public place where there are wives and young children.) But I've known many "professional" NCOs who were a waste of space. They knew how to behave but not how to get anything done or manage their soldiers. When I was a young soldier, I had NCOs who called me everything except a child of God. And they were some of the best NCOs I ever had. They knew their jobs. They trained me. They gave me the appropriate attitude check when I messed up or got stupid.

When I was in, I didn't cuss all the time. There's a time and place. But not cussing at all (to extend to "My Girl" cadences is just one more step to turning soldiers into Boy Scouts with guns. Next thing you know, in addition to already giving recruits the option of rappelling in Basic Training pugil stick and bayonet training will be optional.
(1)
Comment
(0)
SSG Katherine Likely
SSG Katherine Likely
>1 y
" But I've known many "professional" NCOs who were a waste of space." Especially in mock battles where they refused to take anything seriously and in a fox hole - I thank the good Lord that it wasn't real and we weren't facing a real enemy................... that is enough for any sane person to cuss profuseness and to ask God for forgiveness later.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SGT William Howell
1
1
0
When I went to WLC my instructors had a zero swearing policy long before this policy came into play. Their belief was that swearing was not professional and this was a professional's course. They make the rules, I just had to play by them. It was tough because I love the F bomb more than life itself.

I believe it is a correct way of teaching WLC. How can it be professional development if they allow things that are not professional?
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSG Todd Halverson
1
1
0
They are teaching you that you can be a successful leader without having to use profanity to get your message across. Great leaders can get their point across without cussing. I for one did and do cuss quite a lot.
Another reason for the no cussing is teaching discipline. Yes, they know everyone does use profanity in their everyday life. But, they are getting you to focus on getting you ideas across without profanity and it makes one really think about what they are saying.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

How are you connected to the military?
  • Active Duty
  • Active Reserve / National Guard
  • Pre-Commission
  • Veteran / Retired
  • Civilian Supporter