Posted on Oct 23, 2015
SSG Infantryman
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What is it that the cadre and policy makers in NCOES schools think they are accomplishing by suppressing 240 years of culture. Secondly, I don't know of anyone who after the school was like "oh I better not cuss now I'm a warrior leader"
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Responses: 142
SGT Bryan O'Reilly
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Edited >1 y ago
I would echo what the rest of the guys say. Profanity is just excess verbiage and it can muddle your commands I want a block of instruction delivered as quickly and concisely as possible. especially during a fire mission because lives depend on it. It also makes me seem less in control if I am always cussing at my people. I am in the habit of confirming every instruction I give. I give a guy an instruction, ask if they understand and then have them repeat it back to me. This is a great tool for ensuring your people understand you the first time.
I never argue For the same reason. Control. NCO's who routinely argue with pvts have no business in command.
I also kept a bucket and a scrub brush on my desk, symbols of how you would spend your spare time scrubbing 5 ton trucks if you want to be a hardcase
Like it ior not part of our job is politics. That means we have a side that staff sees and a side our battles see. I want my command to know I am in control and not a hot head. Screaming at people unnecessarily is for illiterate weaklings IMO
I can dress someone down pretty quick without ever swearing, but there is a time when it is appropriate. And that's when it needs to carry power. Use your best judgement sarge, But I like to praise my people as much as possible, cause heaven help them when they do get me cussing
Your pal,
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CW3 Vernon Messer
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Sergeant, you identify a problem that started on the college campus where campus thought and speech police reign supreme. By forcing females into Infantry, Rangers, Special Forces in an effort to eventually get a female Combatant 4 star Commander and/or a Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, the cultures of these units and organization will be forced to change their modes of operation. This will be the cost of doing business. Also, there is a parallel progressive effort to generally neuter the male in our society. Look at TV commercials, magazine ads, et al. The US male is always the dummy, the weak kneed idiot, or the fall guy. Welcome to the world of political correctness...and it's coming from the top.
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SSG Katherine Likely
SSG Katherine Likely
8 y
"By forcing females into Infantry, Rangers, Special Forces ........" Excuse me, she said with as much composure as possible - sir I feel you are rated for a cuss put down - but I'll try to be a lady about it and say, "You stink."
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CW3 David Covey
CW3 David Covey
7 y
Facts hurt sometimes, SSG.
I have no problems with females doing anything they are capable of doing as long as the standards are met and not changed to allow for those who are not capable. If being an artilleryman requires the loader to hump 100 lb shells for 30 minutes straight is the standard, then in order to allow a female into the MOS the standard is changed to 50lb rounds, obviously the standard has been changed for the purpose of putting her there.
I think your attitude is misplaced about females and their capabilities, especially in combat arms, special forces.
As Clint Eastwood once said, Ya gotta know your limitations.
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SGT Tim Fridley
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I have used some colorful language in my day but no need for it when instructing troops or giving briefings ect. That is counter productive
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CPL Richard Flagg
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When I went to PLDC now WLC in 90' at Fort Sill's NCO Academy; I remained professional and all that til that REMF fhrew the PRC-77 off his for being "Too Heavy." Then I just had to lay into his weak ass for potentially breaking our commo. The instructors laughed and chuckled at my On The Spot Correction.

It's too bad that times have changed since the PC Sensitivity Police have taken over. Come on our jobs are to kill the enemy not take him out for coffee at the local Starbucks or coffee shop.
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CPL Glenn Cariaga
CPL Glenn Cariaga
>1 y
sorry, but the army's mission is changing. the army is being used for policing and for COIN operations. that means taking out the enemy to the local chai shop.
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SGT Scott Henderson
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Probably something to do with "being professional". Personally, I don't think anything motivates soldiers in training better than "MOVE YOUR FUCKING ASS!!!!"
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1SG Patrick McKelvey
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Edited >1 y ago
Good grief people! Are you seriously this wrapped up in verbiage that the term "Profession of Arms" means that my language can create such an intolerable environs that you are non mission capable? It's very strange to me as I prepare to retire that we are so enamored of the linguistics of professionalism that oft times we are forced to forego actual training in the profession of finding, fixing, closing with, engaging, and destroying an enemy (much less the intricacies of COIN which is or should have been our bread and butter for the last 10 years but alas that is another topic altogether) the ARMS part people. . Several millennia ago I was in a course where we had "senior Students" as peer instructors and one of them overheard me use the dreaded F-bomb. She proceeded to lambast me for the better part of 10 minutes on how unprofessional I was and how in her estimation I would be a danger as a soldier and a disaster as a leader because "Profanity is a weak mind expressing itself." That resonated with me because a) it was a rather pithy remark and b) my original statement was " who the f#@k taught you to set this claymore up so you can read it from your foxhole?!" My point here ladies and gentlemen is there is a place for everything and right now after 13 years of combat and an ongoing and apparently never ending battle with limited training dollars, soldiers who cannot come into compliance, leaders who are suffering paralysis thru analysis and an ever expanding administrative choke hold on our training hours it's my F#@KING language that is at issue here?
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COL John Hudson
COL John Hudson
>1 y
I don't have a problem with the idea there's a time and place for everything. Out in the Field is one thing, bringing the Field into a mixed gender professional setting is another. I do have a problem with those who can't tell the difference and conduct themselves accordingly. So does UCMJ.
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SSG Katherine Likely
SSG Katherine Likely
>1 y
when i was younger and in the field i had a "potty mouth" according to my mom. But, as i got older and wiser i learned other words that could equal the same thing but not be offensive.
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1SG Patrick McKelvey
1SG Patrick McKelvey
>1 y
Apologies, perhaps some of you did not or cannot see the frame of reference in my vignette nor the overarching theme in my message due to a tunnel vision on "professional language" discourse. Perhaps I should clarify... I have a foul mouth. That is to say, I have a disproportionate use of verbiage that my Grandmother would have been forced to take unbridled umbrage over should I speak that way at the Family Sunday dinner table, and in that environment that punctuative language would have been unnecessary and counter productive. That said, my grandmother would NEVER have been stupid enough to TEACH someone to emplace a Claymore mine with the words FRONT TOWARDS ENEMY facing towards themselves. And should she have made such an error she would not have hidden her NEGLIGENCE behind the bullshit of a diatribe on how language is more important than ACTIONS. I may not speak "professionally" at all times but I damn sure carry my responsibility for teaching, training, molding, and mentoring those soldiers around me to the standards that will keep them alive and accomplish missions like millstone around my neck. And I will not now nor ever apologize for asking an NCO or Officer what the FUCK they are doing training soldiers like that. I stand by my product and that is competent trained soldiers of any rank and any MOS that I have worked with or for, I have been a trainer for 20 years and I stand by the philosophy of its not the language its the message and the RESULTS. Besides, I overhead a SSG say recently, " oh hell, Top is pissed. You can tell 'cuz he's all quiet and shit." Great news for me, she gets it and I now have a subordinate who is going to correct the deficiency without me uttering a word offensively peppered with profanity or not.
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1SG Patrick McKelvey
1SG Patrick McKelvey
>1 y
1LT James Clarke - 1LT For The Record: I was neither inner city ( more Country club and prep school) nor country boy ( Ft Hood broke me of that however, due to the unavoidable excess of Country Music for which I have acquired a taste for) , and I did drop out of college to join the Infantry. Best decision ever!
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SFC Rodrick Carter
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Well first off, using profanity is totally unprofessional. Even though profanity is used by the majority of people in uniform, it doesn't mean it needs to be used in NCOES or any other professional setting. The first line of the NCO Creed is "No one is more professional than I." That should sum it up for you right there.
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CPL Terry Whalen
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If a person in a leadership position feels the need to swear in order to solicite a proper response form a fellow soldier than they need to become a better leader, because they are lacking the proper skills necessary. It's shows a complete lack of respect and gentleman qualities that is sorely lacking in today's leaders and that goes from the top down. Whatever happened to decency and professionalism.
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1LT John Unden
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I have to agree with you Sharpie. We need more action and to stop making useless rules. Officers are supposed to be gentlemen, so I can see us pulling back on our own vocab (a little) for the public eye and to set a better example, but Enlisted and NCOs need to be able to do what it takes to get the job done and get the message across. I used to be enlisted and an NCO so I've seen, given, and taken from all sides. We are all in the business of winning wars, not sending people to the middle school principal's office.
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PFC Janice Mayer
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First sentence of the NCO creed. NO ONE IS MORE PROFESSIONAL THAN I. Last sentence of the NCO creed. I WILL NOT FORGET, NOR WILL I ALLOW MY COMRADES TO FORGET THAT WE ARE PROFESSIONALS, NON-COMMISIONED OFFICERS, LEADERS! Cursing is not necessary to convey a message. As soldier we -mostly-all curse, but, you are no longer an ordinary soldier, you are now a leader, role model, and mentor of others. Be the professional that you have earned the right to be. And don't give me that "I'm infantry, I'm combat arms crap- (I can curse with the best of them), I don't need you to say the F-bomb to know I have to do the job you say.
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