Posted on Oct 23, 2015
What is the purpose of the "no profanity" policy in WLC?
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What is it that the cadre and policy makers in NCOES schools think they are accomplishing by suppressing 240 years of culture. Secondly, I don't know of anyone who after the school was like "oh I better not cuss now I'm a warrior leader"
Posted in these groups: 
NCOES
Basic Leaders Course (BLC formerly WLC PLDC)
Small Group Leader
Professionalism
Leadership
NCOES Basic Leaders Course (BLC formerly WLC PLDC) Small Group Leader Professionalism Leadership
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 142
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Personally, I find the use of profanity to be unnecessary and completely unprofessional in any situation. I do not use it, and I prefer that others not use it around me, whether senior, subordinate, or peer. It conveys a hostile and abusive environment.
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It's a professionalism thing. Sure, no one cares when you're with your buddies, but when you're working with the public, citizens of other countries, or anyone outside of the culture, it matters. We are one of, if not THE, most professional militaries in the world. Watching our language in front of others is part of it.
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When I attended PLDC in 1994, we were not allowed to swear either. This is nothing new.
A couple of years before that, my very first PSG used to say, "Swearing is a crutch for the conversationally impaired." I've always known that a strategically timed four-letter word can be effective. Use those words sparingly, and your troops will respect you.
A couple of years before that, my very first PSG used to say, "Swearing is a crutch for the conversationally impaired." I've always known that a strategically timed four-letter word can be effective. Use those words sparingly, and your troops will respect you.
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The reality is that profanity for the most part is a filler, similar to how people use "like", and "um", but it can also be used as an adjective in many situations. It shouldn't be considered taboo, depending on who you are talking to, but one thing leaders should work on is taking a step back and consider "what word can I use in lieu of f**king, or sh**ty to describe this?" And practice speaking on your own, in front of the mirror or wherever you feel comfortable- especially before a brief- so you can reduce any filler words (including like, um, f***ing, etc). It shouldn't be a matter of not being allowed to use profanity, it should be a matter of not needing to use it all the time. If you work at it, you will come off as more professional without really changing your style, just the words; it also means that when you do use profanity, your subordinates know that issue is significant- in other words, not using it gives it a more powerful connotation.
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1. if you cuss all the time, what are you going to do when you need to be emphatic? 2. In case of emergency (here they come!), profanity is just noise that gets in the way of the message.
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I don't believe 240 years is accurate; 4000 is more like it. Don't forget the quote attributed to a Spartan corporal before the walls of Troy: "F____ This Shit!"
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It has never been accepted as a valid form of communication but when at Eaustis I was asked by cadre to get female latrines in order. I bagged them up elbows deep gave a class on hygiene and got reported because i offended them when I made everyone clean unless I got s volunteer or I could drop trouser and see who made the mess. So group effort it was.
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It isn't that. It is trying to convey a professional working environment. I get that. Very few civilian jobs would tolerate the F bomb every third word. I do hear swearing in a corporate environment with a major oil company almost every day. However it isn't quite like it is in the Army.
However, I think the no swearing thing can be taken to an extreme. I got yelled at WLC about mile 4 of our 5 mile run. One of the cadre asked "Are you motivated?" and I was the only one who sounded off....but it was with "F YEAH!" So after I was admonished my motivation was probably in the crapper for the final mile.
If you cannot communicate effectively without it out.....I would brush up on how to communicate and be a leader. Then add it back in.
However, I think the no swearing thing can be taken to an extreme. I got yelled at WLC about mile 4 of our 5 mile run. One of the cadre asked "Are you motivated?" and I was the only one who sounded off....but it was with "F YEAH!" So after I was admonished my motivation was probably in the crapper for the final mile.
If you cannot communicate effectively without it out.....I would brush up on how to communicate and be a leader. Then add it back in.
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As a professional Soldier you need to be capable of communicating in a professional manner. Profanity is a useful tool when used properly but rarely should it be used unconsciously. I rarely used profanity but when I did normally received the complete attention and focus of the Soldiers I addressed. Why wouldn't you be forced to communicate in a professional manner at the first level of NCOES?
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CSM Troy McGilvray
I was in the Army 26+ years, went from squad leader, platoon sergeant, 1SG, Chief OPNS sergeant, CSM of two battalions. I never used profanity with my men, never needed to use it. I expected them to not use profanity to or with me. It worked! Profanity is not necessary to lead troops!
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The no profanity rule kills the warrior spirit. Why not just color the uniforms pink?
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As everyone else said to show professionalism. Consider this, you're in a school environment and you have to lead, give classes, do briefs and cussing will take out the credibility of it and makes you look un-intelligent. Does not mean you are, it just better to be taken serious and as a professional.
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Change 1: WLC is now BLC (Basic Leader Course) Change 2-1000: The toxic culture of swearing gets out of hand really quick and effects other programs the Army is investing into to change. i.e. Counseling, SHARP, EO, and yeah.. can't forget Leadership in keeping with the NCO 2020 vision.
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I think it has to do with being respectful. Just because I served for 20 years didn't mean I appreciated people using profanity in front of me. And I don't know how many times I was asked to forgive someone's French when speaking profanity. When it comes to respecting people there is nothing better than getting rid of old cultures that have a negative impact. Being a Soldier in the United States Army is also about being professional and adapting to changes. Using profanity as an excuse to show someone's manhood or to act like they are superior when talking to a Subordinate is demeaning and inappropriate.
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CW3 David Covey
What kind of "hood" a female soldier show when "she" can cuss better than the male soldier? By the way, I didn't use profanity when directing my soldiers, didn't need to. But when they did or didn't do something that had been communicated to them properly didn't work, I put it in their language, which usually worked. The only time I get worked up about profanity is when it comes out of a female mouth, or it is used around a female. Guess it's just the way I was raised.
What is the difference between profanity and cuss words anyway?
What is the difference between profanity and cuss words anyway?
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There is a Time and place for it and that WLC or any NCOES School is not the Place for it. Be professional and do the right Thing. It is a NEW Generation adapt
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I can't speak for other MOSs but combat arms when I was in profanity was close to a requirement. If you didn't use profanity you were kind of looked at differently
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CSM Troy McGilvray
I was looked at differently. Most leaders are looked at differently. My job was to accomplish the mission and take care of my troops. I did that without profanity. Unless the Army has really gone to "pot" since I retired in 1982, profanity is still not necessary to be a good leader or to accomplish the mission.
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If your shinning a seat with your ass, maybe swearing isn't for you and may hurt your feelings. If your in combat arms, you'd better suck it up buttercup! There is no room for "feelings" when your trying your best to exist and survive. If your soaked to the bone for 2 weeks, covered in mud, haven't had anything warm, and know the suck hasn't even started-swearing isn't an issue, making it is. I had a conversation with a shrink(casual, not ordered!), and asked this. WHY, do they want you to rape, pillage, and burn(not necessarily in that order)-but make sure you don't swear during the process, as to not offend? Quite the contradiction, and he had to agree. He said it makes no sense. Grunts-we aren't there to make friends and influence enemies. We're there to FUCK SHIT UP!!! Let us do our jobs, and stop being such pussies about it. THAT, is the problem.
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CSM Troy McGilvray
SPC Hansen, if you want to get ahead in the Army, you really need to change your attitude. You have leaders that tell you to RAPE, pillage, and burn???????? Those "sickos" need to be sent to Leavenworth. God forbid....has the Army changed that much since I retired?
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SSG Katherine Likely
I was agreeing with you - mostly - then you said rape. There is never an excuse to rape and rape makes you less of a man then profanity makes you a skilled operator.
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SPC Richard Hansen
If you think that anyone is advocating rape, your so far off its silly. The term "Rape, Pillage, and Burn" has been in the universal vocabulary for ions. It's in the history of warriors, and has been brought to light by ISIS/Islam-the Christians did the same during their purge. But, everyone seems to have grown out of it, except for third world, camel humping ass-wipes. It's a satirical phrase, kind of like "Nuns in the open, 100 meters, fire for effect!". The phrase when going to FUBAR something was "rape, pillage, and burn-but not necessarily in that order. NO QUARTER!". Another gem we should never have let go of, or gotten away from. If words can hurt you, your fucked on the battlefield. Like Patton said "An Army without profanity couldn't fight its way out of a pissed soaked paperbag!". There is a reason we are the laughing stock of the world, and our military has no more respect. They've been turned into a bunch of pussies with stupid shit like this. Like the ftard that thinks wearing a reflective belt is going to save you. That, is natural selection.........
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CW3 David Covey
I understand what you are saying, even if the faint of heart doesn't..lol Some of that is out of an old Army ACRONYM pamphlet that was passed around years ago, like the one on wall to wall counseling..lol
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When I was a young soldier and up through the rank of E6, I could cuss with the best of them and sometimes embarrassed others. However , it dawn on me that that ability to swear was not a sign of intelligence, maturity, or leadership. I did not talk like that in front of my wife and family and especially not in front of my children. I decided if I did not need to talk to family like that then I did not need to talk to my fellow soldiers or those I was responsible for like that.
I found it interesting that another soldier even brought it to my attention that I had changed and that it was a positive change. Try it, see what life is like with out a four letter vocabulary.
I found it interesting that another soldier even brought it to my attention that I had changed and that it was a positive change. Try it, see what life is like with out a four letter vocabulary.
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SSG Katherine Likely
When i first came into the navy reserves and we came back from a 2 week stink - my mom wouldn't let me near my children until all those "bad words were gone from your mind, your heart and your mouth."
Of course she was right.
Of course she was right.
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Just a little reminder that not using profanity is not new. General Washington was certainly against it.
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