Posted on May 30, 2018
What is the recommended punishment for a soldier who is FTR while on Extra Duty?
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Need help on the matter, SM gets a summarized art 15 for being FTR, 14 days extra duty, last day of his ED he is late to his timeline and misses movement to his Extra Duty location, I counsel him recommending him for a Field Grade for being FTR once again and I also counseled him on a emotional/spiritual level , trying to figure out the root of the problem. My Platoon SGT comes back to me and voices a concern, that the recommended punishment is too harsh and does not fit the crime , he wants me to do something lesser or something like a trial period , I cant find any regulation on the matter and I want to make sure that whatever I type its legal and legit, not something made up. Where should I be looking into? AR 27-10 is not helping me or maybe I'm reading over something.
UCMJ
Article 15
Legal Services
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 16
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I would consider the outcome and actually verbally council him an leave it at that look, being Pete, Pete, & Repeat doesn't help the soldier, find the root cause an try to help there, what's his problem truly, booze? Pussy? Drugs? Gambling? That about covers the gauntlet of why he could be late. Your welcome I'm here all week
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If it is essential there are formal consequences: Co Grade Article 15 and suspend the punishment for 6 months. Compelled compliance for 6 months of sheer quiet and tranquility. Don’t skip to FG.
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I never saw a written policy on what is appropriate punishment and what is not (outside of "Hey, that is illegal"). It was like when you get one of those recipes that tells you to use spice to fit your taste. How many dishes do you cook for one person? If there are six people eating it, there are at least six opinions of how much spice is right.
1) Do you think the soldier needs the opportunity to seek employment in the civilian world? or is he salvageable?
2) Does the punishment your asking for lead to the answer to question 1)
3) Is the punishment your asking for consistent with similar cases in the recent history of the command?
4) Do your thoughts on questions 1) and 2) match up with the chain of command, up to but not including the convening authority. Woe unto him who brings a soldier to official punishment when the chain of command does not have its ducks in a row and presents a non-unified front. One of the few times in the Marine Corps my anger wasn't just play acting.
5) If the chain of command says go, can you present a well thought out, well articulated argument if the convening authority is skeptical. Now is the time to make sure you have not missed something. Blow it and it takes a long time to recover your lost reputation, up and down the chain of command.
1) Do you think the soldier needs the opportunity to seek employment in the civilian world? or is he salvageable?
2) Does the punishment your asking for lead to the answer to question 1)
3) Is the punishment your asking for consistent with similar cases in the recent history of the command?
4) Do your thoughts on questions 1) and 2) match up with the chain of command, up to but not including the convening authority. Woe unto him who brings a soldier to official punishment when the chain of command does not have its ducks in a row and presents a non-unified front. One of the few times in the Marine Corps my anger wasn't just play acting.
5) If the chain of command says go, can you present a well thought out, well articulated argument if the convening authority is skeptical. Now is the time to make sure you have not missed something. Blow it and it takes a long time to recover your lost reputation, up and down the chain of command.
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Depends on the soldier you are trying to correct;
Is this soldier a "problem child"? Your ultimate goal should be to rehab the soldier and bring him back into the fold. Is he normally a star player but has a problem with being on time? You could possibly invest some of your time in making the soldier show up at the SDNCO's desk in different uniforms hourly for a couple of days (you should also show up and inspect not let the SDNCO do your job). I found that taking the time away from a soldier that was late almost always solved the problem of being late. I also liked making soldiers white reports about the importance of being on time. 500 handwritten words on timeliness... etc.
"Max em out John" type attitude will breed fear rather than respect in my opinion. Show the soldier that you are willing to invest your time in correcting his deficiencies. Have the soldier show up 1 hour before reporting time, be there yourself. If after you have invested all the resources that you can possibly think of to correct the problem then write all of that down and recommend UCMJ action. Keep your NCO support channel in the loop on what you are doing to rehab the soldier. Don't coddle the soldier but invest time and let the soldier know that your patience is not unlimited.
Is this soldier a "problem child"? Your ultimate goal should be to rehab the soldier and bring him back into the fold. Is he normally a star player but has a problem with being on time? You could possibly invest some of your time in making the soldier show up at the SDNCO's desk in different uniforms hourly for a couple of days (you should also show up and inspect not let the SDNCO do your job). I found that taking the time away from a soldier that was late almost always solved the problem of being late. I also liked making soldiers white reports about the importance of being on time. 500 handwritten words on timeliness... etc.
"Max em out John" type attitude will breed fear rather than respect in my opinion. Show the soldier that you are willing to invest your time in correcting his deficiencies. Have the soldier show up 1 hour before reporting time, be there yourself. If after you have invested all the resources that you can possibly think of to correct the problem then write all of that down and recommend UCMJ action. Keep your NCO support channel in the loop on what you are doing to rehab the soldier. Don't coddle the soldier but invest time and let the soldier know that your patience is not unlimited.
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alright so just from my own past Experience if you write a couseling and give him a corrective action and he doesnt follow it thats “ disobeying “ orders.. write another one.. a little more strict corrective action.. if that doesn’t work smoke him. Im not sure what the regs are for corrective pt now but if you cant do more than so many reps stretch the reps out nothin sayin you can make him hate his life.. put him in push up postion.. turn and talk to someone for five minutes or less depending on how “mean” you wanna be come back and say down make him hold it then say up.. one rep.. ive had this happen to me! I know how bad it sucks! I straightened up real quick! if he doesnt hes either super dumb or hes gonna see how far he can push you before you just dont care anymore and you give up
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PFC Casey Bunker
Why would you want to make anyone hate their life? Maybe there’s a reason behind his actions, people do stupid things when they are going through a hard time. Psychology... weird ...
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CPT (Join to see)
I suspect that the comment "hate his life" is not being interpreted in the way SPC Browning intended. However PFC Bunker, the Army is not an encounter group. In all honesty I suspect that the soldier is simply a "non-hacker" that is a danger to his fellow soldiers and unlikely to be effective in kinetic operations. His command should perhaps consider a General Discharge (under Honorable Conditions) and spend the time and effort on a soldier that will be of benefit to the unit and the Army.
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