Posted on Oct 31, 2014
COL Doctoral Candidate In Emergency Management
8.91K
46
36
7
7
0
Waterloo battle
This is a theoretical discussion. Numerous military theorists from Sun Tzu, to Clausewitz (who is horribly misquoted more often than any other), to Colin Gray and Andrew J. Bacevich, Jr. have wrestled with this concept. I have noted in my research that there seems an overwhelming human desire to "impose rules" on war and disgust with those who choose to fight war outside those established "norms."

My question then to you all is what is your own personal definition and or hypothesis concerning war and how would you develop a theory from that? Can you state which other military and political theorists influenced your thought process, if any?
Avatar feed
Responses: 12
CW2 Joseph Evans
3
3
0
"It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it." ~ GEN Robert E. Lee

There is no reason for the gentrification of war but to disguise it as a noble profession that it is not. War, like all forms of violence, is for the purpose of power, control, and domination. That those who resort to it first are not those who are going to suffer on the front lines, make it even more abhorrent as the desperate act of bullies whose policies have failed. War is terrible, and it should be, and those who have not walked the trenches, should not be able to call for that last desperate act.
(3)
Comment
(0)
COL Doctoral Candidate In Emergency Management
COL (Join to see)
10 y
According to Clausewitz there are two kinds of war, “in the sense that either the objective is to overthrow the enemy—to render him politically helpless or militarily impotent, thus forcing him to sign whatever peace we please; or merely to occupy some of his frontier-districts so that we can annex them or use them for bargaining at the peace negotiations.”

Total War is a termed coined by Guilio Duhet in the 1920s and approaches Clausewitz’s abstract concept of Absolute War in the sense that it allowed all means (including poison gas and incendiary weapons – most potent of his day) and all ways (with no distinction between combatants and non-combatants) for the unlimited objectives of overthrowing the enemy. The Civil War was not a total war, the First World War was nearer to it, and the Second World War was nearer still due to the unlimited bombing campaigns against civilian populations.
(0)
Reply
(0)
CW2 Joseph Evans
CW2 Joseph Evans
10 y
Unfortunately Clausewitz had never been exposed to the proxy wars of the 20th Century where the largest of state players lacked the national or political will to effect "Absolute War" against our rivals, choosing instead to conduct it against proxy states in a manner that has yet to meet the "Just War" principles.
The long term effects of Operation Ranch Hand in Vietnam, the funding of the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan, US chemical weapons that supported the Iraq-Iran war. Even our involvement in Iraq since 2003 has generated more harm than good for the population and the stability of the community of Nations.
Since the end of WW II, the hawks have yet to make a successful call in declaring a just war.
(1)
Reply
(0)
COL Doctoral Candidate In Emergency Management
COL (Join to see)
10 y
It is easy for us to armchair quarterback decision makers of the time with today's scientific knowledge and knowledge of the outcomes, but we have to put ourselves in their seats at that specific time and place with the ethics of their day....I would say we can debate the ethical decision of Operation Ranch Hand but at the time it was considered within "international law," funding the Mujaheddin was purely against the Soviets at the time with little thought of what that could eventually become and square in the midst of the Iranian hostage crisis so other things were seen as perhaps of higher priority, and have to state that US Chemical Weapons were NEVER used in the Iraq-Iran war- Iraq developed those against the Geneva convention and in violation of treaties that they had agreed to abide by which led to the distrust the US had over their programs years later.

Not sure anyone actually declares a just war, seems more that "fear honor and interests" (Thucydides) drive us into war that we then go back and apply Just War theory to the situation in an attempt to justify it.
(0)
Reply
(0)
CW2 Joseph Evans
CW2 Joseph Evans
10 y
or condemn it.

I have no problem with the war as a means to preserve the American way of life, as long as we are actually preserving the American way of life. We are currently experiencing conditions in America, matters of ethics and morals in government, that endanger that dream on our own soil, yet we use the excuse that we are "exporting" our democracy, which is in direct violation of our own personal concepts of self-determination. At the end of the day, wars will be fought, won and lost, based not on the values for which we fought, but on the will and determination of young men, both good and evil, who fight for our cause. Whether our cause be just or not, only history will tell by the mark we leave on future generations.
If we lack the national will, the political will, and the educated policies to see war carried through to a just end, there is no just war. And there is only one that we came close to getting right, WW II, and that was because of the effective implementation of the Truman Doctrine and the Marshall Plan, after the effective use of absolute warfare.
Yes, I probably am doing a some armchair quarterbacking after 238+ years of American history, and I am probably getting it wrong on some level through the voicing of my opinion and limited knowledge, and over hearing way to many misquotes of Clausewitz out of context. But I do believe that if we are to go to war, decisive victory in combat is only a milestone in the ultimate goal of peace.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SFC(P) Imagery Sergeant
2
2
0
I've always viewed War as something like a school yard argument that turns into a fight. The principles are roughly the same, there are two individuals (countries or states) that don't agree on something and they start talking first about it (peaceful communications). That will slowly erode into arguing (sanctions), which will lead to pushing (launching weapons from the sea or air). This ultimately will lead to a fight (war), it follows along the same lines, just people who have more to throw around in the way of weapons.

Also as we all know, War is a nasty terrible thing.

It is also a way to solve problems and to end strife. The are many things that War has done that has been to the betterment of humanity on a whole, just like there are things that it has done to hurt and hinder people.
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
MSgt Flight Chief, Operations
2
2
0
I view war as a sponsored society or state that has determined it necessary to execute a change in behavior (actions/intentions/or influence) within another group. I believe war to encompass all powers of influence Diplomatic Informational Military Economic (DIME) and run full range of spectrum from small strategic actions to long actions of attrition. The reason to put rules on war is to minimize the time and resources required to return to a stabilized norm (needless loss of life/resources/infrastructure). With all that said it is about changing the behavior of another be it direct attacks to keep countries out of countries (ISIS does not want Western influence for their people) or to stop an action that a country takes (human atrocities/drug smuggling). Like the debates that we have with others but on a grander scale.
(2)
Comment
(0)
COL Doctoral Candidate In Emergency Management
COL (Join to see)
10 y
Thank you MSgt (Join to see) how do you account for the use of violence as an integral part of "war" to accomplish the change in behavior since that can be done without violence?
(0)
Reply
(0)
MSgt Flight Chief, Operations
MSgt (Join to see)
10 y
Violence is an option to influence war. Sometimes it is the threat of violence (North Korea vs. South Korea) that can cause an outcome. Sometimes it is actual violence that is used to force the issue. However, the use of violence brings in different concerns (based on your philosophy). If you go to a full war (non-small scale strategic strike) you must go through phase 4 stabilization and phase 5 redeployment. Phase 4 stabilization operations are affected on how much destruction/violence was utilized during phase 3 execution (dominate) of war. If your troops brought more violence and destruction than necessary to bring about change, the populace can be resentful and more willing to turn to an insurgency. If you cannot conduct your self in a manner that affects change through phase 3 (to include diplomatic/informational manner) you could lose the legitimacy of war not only on the populace you are trying to influence change but also within your own people or other nation states. This is why I have to believe that the leaders above me have calculated the amount of force necessary to affect an outcome. An example of this is regardless of outcome a cop that shoots an unarmed suspect will always lose some form of legitimacy even if act is justified because the populace views unarmed shootings as wrong.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close