Posted on Jan 27, 2016
What is your concept of the US Constitution's requirement that the President be a "natural born" citizen?
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Politics
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Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 41
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I think the concept is outdated. It creates an asterisk citizen. And for someone who wasn't born here, but live 98% of my life here (95% of it as a citizen), for all practical purposes, what benefit does being born on US soil really provide?
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LTC Paul Labrador
But here is the fallacy of that logic: you can be a natural born citizen and STILL have strong family ties to a foreign nation. Heck, you could expand that argument to ban certain religions from running because they could potentially be influenced by outside interests. That was the argument made against JFK in that being Catholic, the Pope would have undue influence. So, yes, it IS a matter of perceived loyalty.
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1SG James A. "Bud" Parker
LTC Paul Labrador - But there is clear and convincing evidence that to hold the office of President you must be born to US citizen parents based upon Vattel's "Law of Nations." We members of the military swore a sacred oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic . . . In order to live up to that oath we must understand what it means, not simply what it says. We have plenty of politicians that will spin the meaning to suit their agenda.
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LTC Paul Labrador
1SG James A. "Bud" Parker - again a fallacy in logic. As a commissioned officer, I already hold office in the executive branch of government. If you say that we can't trust a foreign born POTUS to support and defend the Constitution, then why are you able to trust me with command authority? If you are saying that us foreign born officers can't be trusted to execute our duty in accordance with the Oath we swore, even if it's against our "home nation", then you need to strip every officer not born in the US of their commissions and ability to command US troops. Again, it is an arbitrary rule. There is no proof that a natural born citizen will execute the duties of the office of POTUS any better than a foreign born one.
BTW, I well and truly understand the meaning of the Oath that I swore. Where I was born has no bearing on my ability to understand or abide by it.
BTW, I well and truly understand the meaning of the Oath that I swore. Where I was born has no bearing on my ability to understand or abide by it.
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1SG James A. "Bud" Parker
LTC Paul Labrador - Since I did not author the US Constitution regarding the President to be born in the USA to parents who are citizens of the USA I don't feel qualified to explain it from a personal point of view. John Jay was the first Supreme Court Justice of this nation and he is credited with writing this requirement, in collusion with the other Founders. It was based entirely on Natural Law and Natural Rights. The definition of NBC has been confirmed by numerous Supreme Court comments in their case findings.
Here is one of many: The Supreme Court in Scott v Sanford, 60 U.S. 393 (1857)9 Justice Daniel in a separate opinion quoted The Law of Nations extensively in his pre-Amendment 14 opinion.
"The citizens are the members of the civil society, bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority; they equally participate in its advantages. The natives or natural-born citizens are those born in the country of parents who are citizens. As society cannot perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their parents, and succeed to all their rights."
Again:
"I say, to be of the country, it is necessary to be born of a person who is a citizen, for if he be born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country. The inhabitants, as distinguished from citizens, are foreigners who are permitted to settle and stay in the country."
Here is one of many: The Supreme Court in Scott v Sanford, 60 U.S. 393 (1857)9 Justice Daniel in a separate opinion quoted The Law of Nations extensively in his pre-Amendment 14 opinion.
"The citizens are the members of the civil society, bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority; they equally participate in its advantages. The natives or natural-born citizens are those born in the country of parents who are citizens. As society cannot perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their parents, and succeed to all their rights."
Again:
"I say, to be of the country, it is necessary to be born of a person who is a citizen, for if he be born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country. The inhabitants, as distinguished from citizens, are foreigners who are permitted to settle and stay in the country."
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1SG James A. "Bud" Parker
I think the Constitutional requirements are good enough. Either born on American soil or born abroad to a US citizen and having lived in the US for at least 5 years (I know it's a bit more detailed than that but I'm sure you get the idea).
I think the Constitutional requirements are good enough. Either born on American soil or born abroad to a US citizen and having lived in the US for at least 5 years (I know it's a bit more detailed than that but I'm sure you get the idea).
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1SG James A. "Bud" Parker
The key ingredient is that your father must be a US citizen on the day of your birth. It is all based on natural law that existed when the Constitution was written. You inherit your nationality from the father, not the mother.
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PO1 John Miller
1SG James A. "Bud" Parker
Well, you asked me what my concept was and I told you.
Secondly, I think it's pretty sexist that a person's nationality/citizenship cannot be based on your Mother. And no, I am not a bleeding heart Liberal.
Well, you asked me what my concept was and I told you.
Secondly, I think it's pretty sexist that a person's nationality/citizenship cannot be based on your Mother. And no, I am not a bleeding heart Liberal.
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1SG James A. "Bud" Parker
PO1 John Miller - My intent by posting this question was to stimulate a little history of the creation of this nation. In the vast majority of time on Planet Earth a woman's nationality was based upon her husband's nationality. When they married they merged into one legal entity, that of the man. Hence women were introduced as Mrs. John Doe, Not merely, Sally Doe.
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The Founders reasoning for the Natural Born Citizen requirement in Article II is self-evident in the history of how it came to exist in our founding documents. In his letter to the Constitutional Convention, requesting the Natural Born Citizen be added as a requirement for high office under Article II, Jay explained his reasoning…
“Permit me to hint, whether it would be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government; and to declare expressly that the Commander in Chief of the American Army shall not be given to nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen.” – John Jay letter dated July 25, 1787 (John Jay was our first Supreme Court Justice)
The reasoning of our Founders or the “original intent” of our Founders was a matter of National Security. In this case, it pertained to the highest and most powerful political office in our new nation, the office of Commander-in-Chief, or President of the United States.
The Founders reasoning and intent was clearly to prevent anyone with natural foreign loyalties or entanglements due to dual, divided or foreign citizenship, from ever holding the office of Commander-in-Chief. Therefore, as stated in Article II of the U.S. Constitution, “No person except a natural born citizen, - shall be eligible to the office of President;” (or Vice President as of Amendment XII)
The section which states “or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution,” pertains only to the Founders themselves, as they were all “citizens” of the United States at the adoption of the Constitution, but none of them were “natural born Citizens” at the adoption of the Constitution.
“Permit me to hint, whether it would be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government; and to declare expressly that the Commander in Chief of the American Army shall not be given to nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen.” – John Jay letter dated July 25, 1787 (John Jay was our first Supreme Court Justice)
The reasoning of our Founders or the “original intent” of our Founders was a matter of National Security. In this case, it pertained to the highest and most powerful political office in our new nation, the office of Commander-in-Chief, or President of the United States.
The Founders reasoning and intent was clearly to prevent anyone with natural foreign loyalties or entanglements due to dual, divided or foreign citizenship, from ever holding the office of Commander-in-Chief. Therefore, as stated in Article II of the U.S. Constitution, “No person except a natural born citizen, - shall be eligible to the office of President;” (or Vice President as of Amendment XII)
The section which states “or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution,” pertains only to the Founders themselves, as they were all “citizens” of the United States at the adoption of the Constitution, but none of them were “natural born Citizens” at the adoption of the Constitution.
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If Ted Cruz is not a citizen, that means every female military member serving overseas who has a child while overseas or male military member whose dependent has a child while he is serving overseas accompanied; forfeits the right of their child to become president one day. Are you kidding me? This is nonsense. Donald Trump is an uncouth blowhard, braggart that engages his mouth before his brain. I do not encourage anger in these postings, but this one boils my blood. If Mom or Dad is a citizen, I don't care if you were born on Mars. You are a natural born citizen. NO ONE DENIES A MILITARY MEMBER THAT RIGHT FOR THIR CHILD BECAUSE OF AN ACCIDENT OF GEOGRAPHY!!!
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1SG James A. "Bud" Parker
"Where" the child is born is not the issue. The men who wrote the Constitution used Vattel's "Law of Nations" to define it. Long story short, back in that century a child naturally inherited the nationality of the father. The mother's situation meant nothing regarding nationality. When a woman married a man she automatically took on his nationality. Of course, many hundreds of US Laws have been passed since then, but not one of them can change the US Constitution's original meaning.
A Cuban man, Rafael Cruz, in the USA on a Green Card met and married a woman. They married and both moved to Canada where they lived for eight years. During that time they immigrated into Canada, becoming Canadian citizens. Then, in a few years they had a son, Ted Cruz. Little Teddy was born in Calgary, Alberta to Canadian parents. He was issued a Canadian birth certificate.
Four years later Ted’s father packed the family up and they drove down to Houston, TX following oilfield work. Soon Ted’s parents (still Canadians) put Ted in Kindergarten. Next, Ted was in Grade School, and the rest, as they say, is history. Forty-eight years after Raphael Cruz left Cuba he finally got around to applying for US citizenship, when his son Ted was 35 years old. When did Ted Cruz apply for US citizenship? Ted’s parents were Canadians and he was born in Canada with a Canadian birth certificate.
The men that created this nation had just physically evicted the British Government and did not want anyone to be President that had any family ties to any foreign nation. That is why they bothered to enter the Natural Born Citizen clause in the Constitution. The definition of those three words is a child born in a nation to citizens of that nation. The US Supreme Court has mentioned that definition of natural born citizenship in four separate cases.
A Cuban man, Rafael Cruz, in the USA on a Green Card met and married a woman. They married and both moved to Canada where they lived for eight years. During that time they immigrated into Canada, becoming Canadian citizens. Then, in a few years they had a son, Ted Cruz. Little Teddy was born in Calgary, Alberta to Canadian parents. He was issued a Canadian birth certificate.
Four years later Ted’s father packed the family up and they drove down to Houston, TX following oilfield work. Soon Ted’s parents (still Canadians) put Ted in Kindergarten. Next, Ted was in Grade School, and the rest, as they say, is history. Forty-eight years after Raphael Cruz left Cuba he finally got around to applying for US citizenship, when his son Ted was 35 years old. When did Ted Cruz apply for US citizenship? Ted’s parents were Canadians and he was born in Canada with a Canadian birth certificate.
The men that created this nation had just physically evicted the British Government and did not want anyone to be President that had any family ties to any foreign nation. That is why they bothered to enter the Natural Born Citizen clause in the Constitution. The definition of those three words is a child born in a nation to citizens of that nation. The US Supreme Court has mentioned that definition of natural born citizenship in four separate cases.
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As one can easily see going through the debate here, the problem is that it simply isn't defined anywhere in US jurisprudence, law, or the Constitution. It has to be, and Congress should pass a law one way or the other, which would eventually be litigated up to SCOTUS and either affirmed or otherwise defined to put this to rest once and for all.
My general feeling is that it would come down on the side of Cruz and others like him being natural born. But there's simply no definition to go to for that right now.
My general feeling is that it would come down on the side of Cruz and others like him being natural born. But there's simply no definition to go to for that right now.
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1SG James A. "Bud" Parker
This issue has been confirmed by the Supreme Court in four separate cases, down through the history of our nation.
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1SG James A. "Bud" Parker A person who is a citizen from birth and has no need for naturalization. The phrase “natural born Citizen” includes any individual born to a U.S. citizen parent, whether in California, Canada, Germany, a district or territory is a U.S. citizen from birth.
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CPT (Join to see)
1SG James A. "Bud" Parker - Does that mean that children born to U.S. Service members abroad are not "natural born Citizens"?
Jus soli citizenship: “Jus soli” is a Latin phrase meaning “law of the soil.” Jus soli citizenship is any citizenship that inheres in a person based on the location of his or her birth.
Jus sanguinis citizenship: “Jus sanguinis” is a Latin phrase meaning “law of the blood.” Jus sanguinis citizenship is any citizenship that inheres in a person based on his or her ancestry.
Native born citizenship: A native born citizen is one whose citizenship derives from the facts of his birth, and who becomes a citizen at the moment of birth. In both US and British law, those born within the sovereign territory of the country or born to parents who are citizens (subjects) of the country when the person is born are native citizens (subjects.) Native born persons are said to have “birthright citizenship.” Note that one can be “native born” either by the “jus soli” principle or by the “jus sanguinis” principle.
Jus soli citizenship: “Jus soli” is a Latin phrase meaning “law of the soil.” Jus soli citizenship is any citizenship that inheres in a person based on the location of his or her birth.
Jus sanguinis citizenship: “Jus sanguinis” is a Latin phrase meaning “law of the blood.” Jus sanguinis citizenship is any citizenship that inheres in a person based on his or her ancestry.
Native born citizenship: A native born citizen is one whose citizenship derives from the facts of his birth, and who becomes a citizen at the moment of birth. In both US and British law, those born within the sovereign territory of the country or born to parents who are citizens (subjects) of the country when the person is born are native citizens (subjects.) Native born persons are said to have “birthright citizenship.” Note that one can be “native born” either by the “jus soli” principle or by the “jus sanguinis” principle.
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1SG James A. "Bud" Parker
CPT (Join to see) - No, sir. If both of your parents were US citizens when you were born, you could have been born on the Moon and you would still be a NBC. See my recent post about Supreme Court finding...
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Old English term meaning born on the land, which was written to keep British and British Canadian from assuming the Presidency and then returning the US to British rule. The issue is that people have forgotten US History. Now want to talk about Gay vs Happy?
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CPT Pedro Meza
Crazy to believe that we were taught that back in grade schools prior to the mid 70's.
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1SG James A. "Bud" Parker
Mark, both of your parents need to have been US citizens when you were born, also.
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SSG (Join to see)
1SG James A. "Bud" Parker - That's not a part of the common definition of natural born.
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