Posted on Dec 9, 2014
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Within the next week I will be completing the build on a LR308.
It is built around a 24" fluted SS barrel and due to that I am attempting to add as much lightness as possible (Fixed tube stock, short floating railed fore end, etc) This is to be my 1000M+ rifle.
Keep in mind I was Marine trained at 500 M with an M14 in the 60s, but am also aware of PDAs, rangefinders and BDC equipped scopes. Things have come a long way since the leatherwood ART scopes used un Vietnam. I am considering use of this old school gear with some modern enhancements to the total package.
So, all the true shooters out there, what is your considered opinions?
It is built around a 24" fluted SS barrel and due to that I am attempting to add as much lightness as possible (Fixed tube stock, short floating railed fore end, etc) This is to be my 1000M+ rifle.
Keep in mind I was Marine trained at 500 M with an M14 in the 60s, but am also aware of PDAs, rangefinders and BDC equipped scopes. Things have come a long way since the leatherwood ART scopes used un Vietnam. I am considering use of this old school gear with some modern enhancements to the total package.
So, all the true shooters out there, what is your considered opinions?
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Long Range Shooting
Long Range Shooting
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 10
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Cpl Dennis F. A good friend of mine once pointed out that a person should spend as much on glass as on a rifle for any semi precision or full precision role. For true 1000+ you're going to need to follow that rule (I just read down and see you already mentioned it). The .308 is limited at those ranges, technically capable of man-sized accuracy, but .300 win mag, .338 Lapua and some other options are more consistent.
If you were trained in the 60s I'm not sure if they were using MOA or Mils at that time, consider which range measurement system is preferable to you (meters-mils-CM or yards-MOA-inches).
Definitely get a scope that is brilliant in the basics, high quality glass with a strong reticule in your preferred measurements. All the Gucci precision gear can be added on or used separately, but good glass with a good Mil-dot system is irreplaceable.
My preference for reticules is Horus (their Hr37 extreme long range is the image attached), it eliminates a lot of the guess work of the old Mildot system, and with good training can be used very well for BDC and windage, as well as on-the fly- adjustments (no need to click). Horus sells some scopes directly, but their reticules are also available in top of the line scopes.
https://www.horusvision.com/reticles.php
Top of the line names: Premier, Schmidt & Bender, Zeiss, Middle: Horus Vision, Leupold, Vortex
If you were trained in the 60s I'm not sure if they were using MOA or Mils at that time, consider which range measurement system is preferable to you (meters-mils-CM or yards-MOA-inches).
Definitely get a scope that is brilliant in the basics, high quality glass with a strong reticule in your preferred measurements. All the Gucci precision gear can be added on or used separately, but good glass with a good Mil-dot system is irreplaceable.
My preference for reticules is Horus (their Hr37 extreme long range is the image attached), it eliminates a lot of the guess work of the old Mildot system, and with good training can be used very well for BDC and windage, as well as on-the fly- adjustments (no need to click). Horus sells some scopes directly, but their reticules are also available in top of the line scopes.
https://www.horusvision.com/reticles.php
Top of the line names: Premier, Schmidt & Bender, Zeiss, Middle: Horus Vision, Leupold, Vortex
Horus Reticles
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Cpl Dennis F.
Capt (Join to see) Thanks so much for your detailed response. Something that I should have thought of, having once spent a few years competing in 3 gun with IPSC. You're right a lot of horse trading up in the shooting communities. How long have you been at 29 palms? Blew through there decades ago for .50 school. Desolation defined.
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Cpl Dennis F.
Capt Richard I P. Capt (Join to see) See my selection and final set up below. Thanks guys!
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LTC Paul Labrador
Exactly. There is no point buying a Ferrari of a rifle and putting a Yugo of a scope on it.
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CW3 Kevin Storm
I would say it depends on where you are going to use it. I laugh when I see people out there with a giant Zeiss to try hunt woods of New England where everything is overgrown and can't see two hundred yards, bull briars everywhere. Then there is the guy with a walmart scope trying to plink at 1000 meters wondering why he can't get close. Scope kind of needs to be matched to what it will be doing. If you are using a 30-30 do you need the giant Zeiss? Not likely, opposite for the .308 or .338 lapua you need a quality scope.
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"without breaking the bank" is pretty subjective. How big is the bank? I'm a huge fan of the Leupold Mark IV, but it's a tad pricey. BTW...if you ever want a great scope for one of your AR's the leupold Mark AR will make you a believer for around $400...you can get it for less with different reticles, but trust me, the firedot TMR reticle is worth the $.
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Cpl Dennis F.
Exactly. I've been looking at Horus scopes. Very interesting reticles, software/weather package. About $16-1800 but will absolutely put the second round (trued for input errors from 1st round strike) on 18x18 at 1k M.
No clicks required after Zero, hold and wind all done on the reticle. Take a look.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8tv8C00pCE
No clicks required after Zero, hold and wind all done on the reticle. Take a look.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8tv8C00pCE
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Capt Richard I P.
Cpl Dennis F. Between when I started typing my recommendation of Horus (below) and hit send I see you've already been researching them... Sorry to be redundant.
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Cpl Dennis F.
Not at all, Capt Richard I P. you have added to the data. I'm sure that other than me can make use of the info that gets presented here. Horus has definitely impressed me enough to extend my budget considerably.
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Cpl Dennis F.
SGT Richard H. See my final choice below. I liked the scope so much I bought a 3X Spitfire prism dot sight for my BLK from them a bit later. Thanks for your input.
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Try vortex optics, i sold optics while i worked at cabelas before i joined. they are American owned veteran owned company, they made a quality product that rivals zeiss and swarovski optics.
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Try Night force, they have good scope selection.
I think researching would be the best bet.
I think researching would be the best bet.
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Cpl Dennis F.
PFC Tuan Trang Thanks for your input...but we are now into the test phase of this post using a Vortex 6-24x50mm XLR FFP reticle. See the other posts.
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Thought you guys might like to see the finished product.
I will be shooting this beast from a Caldwell chair-pod.
I hope the results prove worth the expense.
Thanks to all who helped me with this decision.
I will be shooting this beast from a Caldwell chair-pod.
I hope the results prove worth the expense.
Thanks to all who helped me with this decision.
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Cpl Dennis F.
SGT Richard H. Cool! I like your build philosophy, top of line, spare no expense. Mine is more like, I can do it cheaper.....doesn't always work out that way:)
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SGT Richard H.
Cpl Dennis F., surprisingly, I only have around $1700 invested in this one, including optic. The Atlas bipod will land it right around $1900. Honestly, there are lesser AR's at Academy, off-the-shelf, with no optic for more money than that.
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Cpl Dennis F.
That's about what I have in the LR308, less the scope and mount. Pretty bare bones other than the barrel and the Geisle 2 stage trigger. I got absolutely every part of the build on clearance sale (upper for $64) Helped build a couple ARs for friends at about $800, entry carbines (a lot of DPMS parts and no sites) with tactical mods: BAD, ambi 30 degree safeties, extended charge handle, single point ambi sling mount and bungee sling. Some Magpul furniture. But we also found a treasure stash of great parts from a buying spree in the 80s....helped a lot.
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Well guys this looks like the decision.
I wanted a Leupold with a H25 Horus reticle, (cant find one)
Or a Horus with decent magnification, (cant find one)
I will probably go with the Vortex 6-24 X 50mm with front focal XLR reticle.
It has the magnification I want, a reticle similar to the Horus, nice 1/8 moa click turrets and came in under the new $1100 cut off at $899. A lot of good features for the money. Looked at a shit pot of scopes!
Opinions?????
I wanted a Leupold with a H25 Horus reticle, (cant find one)
Or a Horus with decent magnification, (cant find one)
I will probably go with the Vortex 6-24 X 50mm with front focal XLR reticle.
It has the magnification I want, a reticle similar to the Horus, nice 1/8 moa click turrets and came in under the new $1100 cut off at $899. A lot of good features for the money. Looked at a shit pot of scopes!
Opinions?????
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Capt (Join to see)
You wont be disappointed. Looking at close to the same for myself. I dont think 29 palms has changed much since you have been here by the way!
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SGT Richard H.
I definitely like the sounds of it and love the looks of the reticle.
The only Vortex I have any experience with is a Strikefire on one of my ARs and I like it pretty well (would like the dot to be a couple MOA smaller though).
Keep us posted on the shooting end of it. I'm kicking around the idea of a bolt gun build (think along the lines of an M2010) so this may be a contender for me as well. I was thinking Leupold Mark IV or a Nightforce, but like you I'd like to keep it a little closer to the $1k area.
The only Vortex I have any experience with is a Strikefire on one of my ARs and I like it pretty well (would like the dot to be a couple MOA smaller though).
Keep us posted on the shooting end of it. I'm kicking around the idea of a bolt gun build (think along the lines of an M2010) so this may be a contender for me as well. I was thinking Leupold Mark IV or a Nightforce, but like you I'd like to keep it a little closer to the $1k area.
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Consider anything from Meopta. It's German grade glass for about half of what Zeiss and a third of what Swarovski cost. They have a wide variety of tubes and features. I have a 3x9x40 on a Tika T3 now. Wouldn't trade it ....or the Tika for that matter..for the world. Good stuff!
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CMC Robert Young
I've bought Meopta here locally (Columbia, SC) for around $500-750 depending on the scope. The comparable Swarovskis run $1400-2500. Try Shooters' Choice at 944 Sunset Blvd, West Columbia, SC 29169 Phone: [login to see] .
I haven't been there in a couple of months, but last time I was they had a decent selection of Meopta.
The Tika is chambered for .243. It's a great short range whitetail deer rifle. It's doesn't weigh much, but almost no recoil, and it drives tracks out to 300 yards.
Hope this helps.
I haven't been there in a couple of months, but last time I was they had a decent selection of Meopta.
The Tika is chambered for .243. It's a great short range whitetail deer rifle. It's doesn't weigh much, but almost no recoil, and it drives tracks out to 300 yards.
Hope this helps.
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Dennis, such a technical question, hopefully we can provide a nice reputable SNIPER type shooter for you to get an appropriate answer. I have not shot a Remington 700/M24 in two decades plus as I now wiggle sticks in helicopters. Those 1000 meter days are gone. Hope you get an answer soonest.
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Cpl Dennis F.
CW5 Sam R. Baker Thanks for understanding that I really need the Pros From Dover for this one.
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CW5 Sam R. Baker
If I was so doing the Special Reaction Team training and shooting still it would be to easy. I used to train with the Marines, FBI and DEA at Quantico. Miss those days, but flying trumps that now.
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Finally got my 200M zero, shooting off a Atlas bipod and a bag. Much more confident with this set-up. Need to get back to basics and sharpen my rusty skill set. Spent the rest of the day blowing a silhouette with 1" colored dots out of the frame and ringing a 12" gong shooting through smoke clouds from the 50M line tannerite shooters. Also zeroed my friends AR carbine and trouble shot his pistol that I helped him build. My .300BLK is also still great fun.
On to the 500M range soon.
On to the 500M range soon.
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