Posted on Feb 14, 2018
What part of our society is ultimately responsible for the shooting at Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, FL?
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Beyond my utter shock and dismay at this latest school shooting, I ask myself why? Who failed “us”. why?
Do we need a ‘police state’ to moniter and report eveyone with an personality abberation?
Do too many of our citizens choose to look the ‘other way”’ rather than accept the responsibilty of reporting “deranged members of society”?
At age 12, in 1945, I was cleared to ‘fire at will’ on the farm. I possessed a 22 caliber rifle and the 410 shotgun arrived soon after.
Positive action is needed, your thoughts?
Do we need a ‘police state’ to moniter and report eveyone with an personality abberation?
Do too many of our citizens choose to look the ‘other way”’ rather than accept the responsibilty of reporting “deranged members of society”?
At age 12, in 1945, I was cleared to ‘fire at will’ on the farm. I possessed a 22 caliber rifle and the 410 shotgun arrived soon after.
Positive action is needed, your thoughts?
Firearms and Guns
Children
Responsibility
Family
Edited 6 y ago
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 119
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Lot of issues in play in these debates, and no one answer is going to to provide a solution. Eliminating 'marked' gun free zones might help in some cases. At least put some doubt in the mind of the nut bags that perpetrate these shootings. Another thing that might help is to stop turning the shooters into instant celebrities. Do not show their pictures. Do not say their names. Stop giving them the notoriety they crave. That might not stop the disgruntled employee from shooting the boss that fired him, but stop assuring the ones that are seeking Klebold and Harris level infamy that they will get it. If they commit these crimes they should be relegated to obscurity. Report on the crime, the victims, and the community. Do not reward the shooter, and inspire others to emulate the crime, by giving them an around the clock spotlight.
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The answer cannot continue to be thoughts and prayers. We try hard to defeat sickness and extremism abroad but when it comes to our children we keep rolling over and asking to be fucked again and again. The military builds and protects schools in foreign countries so their kids can go to school, but at home they MAY have one cop on site. This kid got expelled and had all kind of issues and he still was able to legally own a firearm AND get smoke grenades.
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I don't suppose any of us have all the answers, but I'm sure all of us want some.
Thinking on this last night, I realized that to find the "answer" we have to click a mental switch and "ignore" the rhetoric on both "sides" of the gun-control debate. If "banning" them would work, ok...but it wouldn't because with millions of arms out there, even a total ban would be virtually impossible to put into effect. This makes me think that neither a "ban", nor total inaction offers any solution.
We probably have to start asking hard questions about the shooters...what "makes" a human being so distant from humanity, compassion, and even personal preservation to walk into a school and start killing? I think it's because we've created a totally self-centered society that values little, because everything that gives value has been questioned.
Our students can't be proud to be Americans anymore...because supposedly everything about "America" is bad. They can't be proud of their heritage anymore...because supposedly everyone's ancestors were either genocidal opportunists or victims. They can't be proud of their accomplishments anymore...because supposedly just being a "success" is evidence they had an unfair advantage, and failure is just proof of being "underprivileged". Hell, they can't even look forward to any sort of self-fulfillment...because from marriage to parenthood to even securing a decent job, nothing is expected to endure.
They can't even believe that there's anything beyond the grave anymore....for fear someone's sensibilities will be offended if they do.
What do we offer as an alternative?
Drugs to make the feelings of failure and irrelevance go away? Hyper-realistic games that allow them to play out violent and carnal fantasies without consequence? Films depicting "heroes" who in earlier times would've been considered "villains"? We have young women being "rated" on a scale based on "so many out of ten would not..." and young men encouraged to suppress any aggression while in contrast, being shown that only the most aggressive males succeed.
I think we have to return to some values...we shouldn't have to measure each to make sure no one is going to take "offense" before we do. We need discipline...not a laundry list of excuses forcing educators, mentors and parents to ignore anarchy. We need a society that defines "good" and "bad"...we shouldn't have to debate which is what that much.
Finally, we need to learn to accept that there is such a thing as "evil", and sometimes, it doesn't need a "reason". We need to practice some common sense in protecting ourselves and our children from it. We can't afford to ignore the warning signs simply because the standard for "reasonable doubt" has gone into the toilet.
Thinking on this last night, I realized that to find the "answer" we have to click a mental switch and "ignore" the rhetoric on both "sides" of the gun-control debate. If "banning" them would work, ok...but it wouldn't because with millions of arms out there, even a total ban would be virtually impossible to put into effect. This makes me think that neither a "ban", nor total inaction offers any solution.
We probably have to start asking hard questions about the shooters...what "makes" a human being so distant from humanity, compassion, and even personal preservation to walk into a school and start killing? I think it's because we've created a totally self-centered society that values little, because everything that gives value has been questioned.
Our students can't be proud to be Americans anymore...because supposedly everything about "America" is bad. They can't be proud of their heritage anymore...because supposedly everyone's ancestors were either genocidal opportunists or victims. They can't be proud of their accomplishments anymore...because supposedly just being a "success" is evidence they had an unfair advantage, and failure is just proof of being "underprivileged". Hell, they can't even look forward to any sort of self-fulfillment...because from marriage to parenthood to even securing a decent job, nothing is expected to endure.
They can't even believe that there's anything beyond the grave anymore....for fear someone's sensibilities will be offended if they do.
What do we offer as an alternative?
Drugs to make the feelings of failure and irrelevance go away? Hyper-realistic games that allow them to play out violent and carnal fantasies without consequence? Films depicting "heroes" who in earlier times would've been considered "villains"? We have young women being "rated" on a scale based on "so many out of ten would not..." and young men encouraged to suppress any aggression while in contrast, being shown that only the most aggressive males succeed.
I think we have to return to some values...we shouldn't have to measure each to make sure no one is going to take "offense" before we do. We need discipline...not a laundry list of excuses forcing educators, mentors and parents to ignore anarchy. We need a society that defines "good" and "bad"...we shouldn't have to debate which is what that much.
Finally, we need to learn to accept that there is such a thing as "evil", and sometimes, it doesn't need a "reason". We need to practice some common sense in protecting ourselves and our children from it. We can't afford to ignore the warning signs simply because the standard for "reasonable doubt" has gone into the toilet.
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CSM Hayden- I'd like you to follow up this post with a part II and ask for solutions to the issue.
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CSM Charles Hayden
LTC (Join to see) Colonel, what more could I say? “Positive action is needed, your thoughts”.
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LTC (Join to see)
CSM Hayden, I think you tackle this issue from three areas: Gun Ownership Eligibility, Mental Illness Issues, Govt School Protection
Gun Ownership- cleared individuals, no criminal record, background investigation, fingerprints etc. Training would be the same as for a concealed carry. I think somewhere in here would be a psych evaluation as well.
Mental Illness- I am not a doc but I had a s-ton of Soldiers on narcotics and psychotropics prescribed by Army Docs. I had 3 suicides and one homicide while in command. The three Soldiers were on 3 or more psychotropics. Again, I am not a doc but I don't think they should have had access to a weapon. Two big issues here: HIPPA and the Privacy Act. The Command Team could look at individual Soldier's medical records and know what they were prescribed. But- you can't tell their spouse. You
Also can't tell their team or squad leader. So, you may have a Soldier on several narcotics and the Soldiers immediate Chain
Of Command will not know if they are on meds. I was in a logistical unit. So I obviously did not want my 5K fuel trucks being driven by folks under the influence of narcotics.
Last leg of the stool- Protection. Government Schools should not be Gun Free Zones. Rescind that, then get Veteran Volunteers to serve 1-2 hrs at a school. Our school has a program called Watch Dogs. These are cleared individuals that assist in the am getting the kids in class and in the afternoon with getting kids on the buses. Take the recent Florida shooting. The Football coach is rightfully being called a hero. He sacrificed himself to save the school children. Take that heroism and give it access and training with a gun. Now we have protected the school.
CSM, I don't think there is any one answer. Political Ideology will veere this discussion to kicking the can down the road. There are many fingers to point and pin blame. But that will not make grieving any easier. To fix the issue you have to address all uncomfortable problems.
V/R
Gun Ownership- cleared individuals, no criminal record, background investigation, fingerprints etc. Training would be the same as for a concealed carry. I think somewhere in here would be a psych evaluation as well.
Mental Illness- I am not a doc but I had a s-ton of Soldiers on narcotics and psychotropics prescribed by Army Docs. I had 3 suicides and one homicide while in command. The three Soldiers were on 3 or more psychotropics. Again, I am not a doc but I don't think they should have had access to a weapon. Two big issues here: HIPPA and the Privacy Act. The Command Team could look at individual Soldier's medical records and know what they were prescribed. But- you can't tell their spouse. You
Also can't tell their team or squad leader. So, you may have a Soldier on several narcotics and the Soldiers immediate Chain
Of Command will not know if they are on meds. I was in a logistical unit. So I obviously did not want my 5K fuel trucks being driven by folks under the influence of narcotics.
Last leg of the stool- Protection. Government Schools should not be Gun Free Zones. Rescind that, then get Veteran Volunteers to serve 1-2 hrs at a school. Our school has a program called Watch Dogs. These are cleared individuals that assist in the am getting the kids in class and in the afternoon with getting kids on the buses. Take the recent Florida shooting. The Football coach is rightfully being called a hero. He sacrificed himself to save the school children. Take that heroism and give it access and training with a gun. Now we have protected the school.
CSM, I don't think there is any one answer. Political Ideology will veere this discussion to kicking the can down the road. There are many fingers to point and pin blame. But that will not make grieving any easier. To fix the issue you have to address all uncomfortable problems.
V/R
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No matter what the problem is, liberals are going to accuse gun owners in order to get the 2nd amendment repelled. Someone knew that the teenager had an AR-15 and they did nothing that is the problem. When we can no longer get guns then people will make their own. The American ingenuity is powerful which is what makes us so strong, we should blame it on the Chinese for inventing gun powder.
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(Join to see)
The shooter has to be held accountable as well as the people around him that ignored the signs and cries for help. ARs should not be available for "street" purchase and that is something we NEED to focus on banning not all guns but the ones that have no business in civilian hands!
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MSgt (Join to see)
There is not a real difference between an AR and a semi auto hunting rifle except my semi auto hunting rifle is a higher caliber. Civilians like you want to ban guns that you view as scary. Many vets like ARs because that weapon is SIMILAR in maintainabiliy to ones they were trained on. They are NOT the same weapons the military uses. They are just similar looking. How about this. Join the military. Attend basic training. Learn to fire a weapon and get educated.
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Who determines a deranged member of society? Be careful what you wish for. Soldiers can be considered deranged and most times are classified as such. Guns are not the issue. People are!
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The part of our society that doesn't value Human life. THe guy involved was socially abused for years before he turned into an active shooter. One of the girls that acted as his abuser for 2 years has been paraded around now as the victim, when the reality was she is seriously responsible for how it turned out. School faculty played a role in his abuse as well piling on when the other student were being incredibly cruel instead of stepping in and intervening. Law enforcement was notified and totally knew about the potential danger...then did nothing. Police on site heard the attack going on...and did nothing. Everyone that helped shaped this event should be held accountable for their accessory role in those deaths. Scapegoating a single individual for it is wholly a fabrication.
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Kids need to stop staring at screens all day and get outside ! Virtual reality is not reality ! They need to absorb the sunshine get more vitamin D and unplug ! Nothing wrong with playing outside when your young. Nothing wrong with getting into some scraps with your brothers or friends. I don't believe in this gang mentality of all your friends jumping in and stomping the other guy brain dead ! They need to learn to be men who can support and protect their future families and stop staring at video games and porn !
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