Posted on Jun 29, 2014
What program is more appropriate for Army Physical Readiness Training, Cross Fit or P90X?
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I'm a P90X junkie.
Lots of military folks prefer CrossFit, as suggested by the vast number of CrossFit military affiliates (http://www.crossfit.com/).
It appears that the P90 series of programs (Power 90, P90X, P90X2, P90X3, along with other programs from BeachBody) mirror the comprehensive approach to fitness, nutrition, and health described in FM 7-22 and the Army Performance Triad (http://hprc-online.org/total-force-fitness/performance-triad).
While I would not go as far as the satirists at The Duffel Blog who have jokingly suggested the Pentagon is looking to ban CrossFit (http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/04/crossfit-ban-dod/#!5RDEq), more serious journalism (http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/strength-and-power-training/Growing-Pains-CrossFit-Injuries-On-the-Rise.html; http://www.armytimes.com/article/20100930/OFFDUTY03/9300301/The-hidden-danger-extreme-workouts) suggests that CrossFit may create more health problems than it solves. (Other studies suggest CrossFit may be good, afterall: http://www.25idl.army.mil/PT/U.S.%20Army%20CrossFit%20Study.pdf)
This is an old conversation, with plenty of Army guidance (http://phc.amedd.army.mil/PHC%20Resource%20Library/PHN_No_0312-01_Extreme_Conditioning_Programs_and_the_Army_2012.pdf) based on government-funded research (http://www.researchgate.net/publication/51788315_Consortium_for_Health_and_Military_Performance_and_American_College_of_Sports_Medicine_consensus_paper_on_extreme_conditioning_programs_in_military_personnel)
Which do you prefer? Or are there better programs out there?
Lots of military folks prefer CrossFit, as suggested by the vast number of CrossFit military affiliates (http://www.crossfit.com/).
It appears that the P90 series of programs (Power 90, P90X, P90X2, P90X3, along with other programs from BeachBody) mirror the comprehensive approach to fitness, nutrition, and health described in FM 7-22 and the Army Performance Triad (http://hprc-online.org/total-force-fitness/performance-triad).
While I would not go as far as the satirists at The Duffel Blog who have jokingly suggested the Pentagon is looking to ban CrossFit (http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/04/crossfit-ban-dod/#!5RDEq), more serious journalism (http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/strength-and-power-training/Growing-Pains-CrossFit-Injuries-On-the-Rise.html; http://www.armytimes.com/article/20100930/OFFDUTY03/9300301/The-hidden-danger-extreme-workouts) suggests that CrossFit may create more health problems than it solves. (Other studies suggest CrossFit may be good, afterall: http://www.25idl.army.mil/PT/U.S.%20Army%20CrossFit%20Study.pdf)
This is an old conversation, with plenty of Army guidance (http://phc.amedd.army.mil/PHC%20Resource%20Library/PHN_No_0312-01_Extreme_Conditioning_Programs_and_the_Army_2012.pdf) based on government-funded research (http://www.researchgate.net/publication/51788315_Consortium_for_Health_and_Military_Performance_and_American_College_of_Sports_Medicine_consensus_paper_on_extreme_conditioning_programs_in_military_personnel)
Which do you prefer? Or are there better programs out there?
Fitness
P90x
CrossFit
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 18
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I have been doing CrossFit for about 2 years and as much as I love it, there is no way that it can be a part of organized unit Physical Readiness Training in my opinion. A key element of CrossFit is being able to perform the movement(s) with proper form to be as efficient as possible during the workout. With that being said, I don't see how it is feasible to allot a vast amount of time to teach the proper technique to everyone.
P90X, Insanity, T-25, and Les Mills Combat are all good programs that can be done easily. The first time we did Les Mill's Combat, I was soaked head to toe and had a hard time walking to the shower.
P90X, Insanity, T-25, and Les Mills Combat are all good programs that can be done easily. The first time we did Les Mill's Combat, I was soaked head to toe and had a hard time walking to the shower.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Agreed---and the Army is acknowledging now that most Soldiers don't have the basic movement skills to do even normal Army PT, so advanced programs are less likely to be of use, unfortunately.
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Crossfit like exercises, that are done properly, and not just for max reps and time (saw a video of a guy who broke his own back doing olympic lifts as fast as he could) are extremely beneficial to military functional fitness. However, I find the crossfit culture, and the atmosphere in a cross fit gym to be a bit creepy. This is just a personal observation. I'm just not into it. I do swing kettlebells, and do burpees and pullups as part of my personal routine.
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I'd be extremely cautious when it comes to taking part in Crossfit training based some of the points made in this article I read. Be sure to find out about the training and certification that the trainers at a gym went through since some places will certify a Crossfit trainer in a weekend.
CrossFit seems to think that the more pain you are in, whether on that day or the days following the workout, the better. The more you disregard the pain and keep pushing through it, the "tougher" you are. But this is not true, and more importantly, it's not healthy.
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I love crossfit, but it is not specific enough once you've got past the beginner gains- it is(or should be) focused on Olympic lifting and gymnastic skills. Really you should be moving onto something that periodizes your PFT/rucking skills like Military Athlete or maybe gym jones. But I prefer Crossfti vs p90x because I love Olympic lifting. I may be biased because I coach Crossfit, but hey.
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I have participated in p90x in the past (and loved it at the time) and am currently training in crossfit. I could care less what program a person chooses if either of these. What is important is that ppl get health, remain healthy, and improve their p.t. standards. Crossfit has gained a bad rep from injuries but what about sports. Nobody wants to bash football and basketball.
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MAJ (Join to see)
I'll bash football and basketball. In my opinion, there is (or should be) very little to no room for "organized sports"i n Army PT. I don't think I can remember an instance out of the dozens and dozens of times I participated in "organized sports" doing Army PT that someone didn't get hurt...
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Nobody has touched on Insanity yet? In my opinion is miles better than p90x in relation to Army Physical standards for one key reason: CARDIO!
Doing p90x will definitely up your pushups and maybe even your situps but unless you are running on your own, your run will suffer.
I have even coached a few soldiers who were on the AWCP through use of insanity which eventually got them off the program.
Doing p90x will definitely up your pushups and maybe even your situps but unless you are running on your own, your run will suffer.
I have even coached a few soldiers who were on the AWCP through use of insanity which eventually got them off the program.
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MAJ (Join to see)
I am a big fan of Insanity as well, especially Insanity The Asylum. I disagree with your comment about running suffering after a round of p90x. Maybe I'm just lucky, but after a round of p90x, I can get back to maxing the APFT run after about 5 or 6 prep runs. But you're right---Insanity brings the cardio. For a real treat, try a Insanity/P90X hybrid round..
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CW2 (Join to see)
Sir, my main point was with Insanity, you don't need "prep runs" to get back to it since you can keep up the running while doing it.
I have tried the hybrid and it felt like I was missing something. Plus, Tony is not a human haha.
I have tried the hybrid and it felt like I was missing something. Plus, Tony is not a human haha.
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I believe cross fit is too stressful on the body and causes unnecessary joint damage.
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Cpl Ray Fernandez
Cpt, Shephard, there's a lot more to physical fitness than high intensity. You need to have proper form and technique to avoid injury, but when you do things for time or speed, form suffers and you may have a greater chance of injury. Lifting weights no matter how intense or how fast will not improve cardiovascular fitness, I'll quote Dutch neurophysiologist, Kenneth Jay discussin using weights to improve cardiovascular fitness.
"With an increased HR to VO2 relationship it will never be as good as typical cardio exercises. It is simple physiology really. Increased heart rate decreases the time available to fill the left ventricle of the heart, which means that the left ventricle will contain and eject less blood per contraction. This means that the "stretching" of the heart wall, which is necessary to increase your stroke volume and your VO2, does not happen. It's the Frank-Starling mechanism in full effect and it's basic cardiorespiratory physiology. Moral of the story: STOP thinking you can 'get your cardio in' by lifting weights -- no matter how fast you lift them!"
"With an increased HR to VO2 relationship it will never be as good as typical cardio exercises. It is simple physiology really. Increased heart rate decreases the time available to fill the left ventricle of the heart, which means that the left ventricle will contain and eject less blood per contraction. This means that the "stretching" of the heart wall, which is necessary to increase your stroke volume and your VO2, does not happen. It's the Frank-Starling mechanism in full effect and it's basic cardiorespiratory physiology. Moral of the story: STOP thinking you can 'get your cardio in' by lifting weights -- no matter how fast you lift them!"
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CPT Dave Shephard
Cpl Ray Fernandez - I completely disagree with you. Just five seconds of searching I found a peer reviewed article published in the Journal of Strength and Conditioning that says just the opposite - High Intensity Power Training (CrossFit) does in fact increase VO2 max.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23439334
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23439334
Crossfit-based high-intensity power training improves maximal aerobic fitness and body...
J Strength Cond Res. 2013 Nov;27(11):3159-72. doi: 10.1519/JSC.0b013e318289e59f.
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Cpl Ray Fernandez
I clicked the link, and did not see the details of the study. I did see that they mention skill work which implies that they did put some work on technique and form. Movement without focusing on form and technique is where injuries occur. There's a reason we're taught to lift with our knees instead of our backs. The study also mentions that it has a variety of participants, but does not detail the testing methodology to determine the different levels. If someone is in low to average levels of physical fitness you would see an improvement based on engaging in a physical fitness activity, will it improve enough VO2. It's hard to determine the level of improvement without knowing some details about the test subjects. Seeing as it was conducted at The Ohio State University. Which would mean that most test subjects were between 18-23 years old and looking at VO2 charts based on age groups. Both genders initial VO2 max were below average to average based on the averages that they calculated, and improved to average to above average.
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Cpl Ray Fernandez
I came across this article that actually looked into the study after it was used in a lawsuit by CrossFit against the NSCA showing that the study proved they were effective. The article makes the case that the study had 11 people who failed to complete the program fully 2 out of the 11 dropped for time management issues, and the other 9 cited overuse and injury as the reasons they failed to complete the program. The article also says that the study alone does more damage than any claims made by NSCA to the credibility of CrossFit.
What's The Matter With CrossFit?
On May 12, CrossFit filed suit against the National Strength and Conditioning Association, claiming the NSCA's Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research published a study based on "'junk' science" to suggest that the fitness program "causes injuries at a high rate." The motive, the suit alleges, was to undermine CrossFit's lucrative and steady business of certifying trainers, for which the NSCA is a competitor.
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