Posted on Mar 25, 2021
What punishment should I recommend for Soldier who showed up for an ASU inspection with it on a hanger?
34.3K
273
138
65
65
0
Backstory. This Soldier has know about the ASU inspection for well over a mont and had gained a substantial amount of weight this past year. She knew a month ago that she didn’t fit in her uniform. But instead of coming forward and saying anything she decided to show up the day of the inspection with it on a hanger saying she has it but it doesn’t fit. Is a punishment warranted for this action? If not what steps or counseling should I give her forcing her to buy a new uniform. Looking for guidance?
Punishment
Corrective Training
Leadership
Career Counselor
Career Advice
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 85
31
31
0
Burpees till they've worked off the "COVID 20" and can fit back into that uniform lol
(31)
(0)
SFC Robert McBride
It is good to know there are a few left standing that get it. Keep up the Fire. Too much touchy feely mush in the mix.
(2)
(0)
SGT Barbara Wilt
My NCO would have lost his mind on that! First off punishment is due for the blatant defiance of bringing the uniform on a hanger. I gained 28 pounds for no reason and had a long conversation with my senior wardmaster, I bought new larger uniforms during that time. Turned out is was a medical issue and I was able to drop the weight after treatment. I sold the new uniforms to another solider who was pregnant. My senior NCO made me a doctors appointment and was very helpful in arranging my work schedule to accommodate my treatment. At no time was I out of uniform. I credit him with saving my life.
(0)
(0)
(0)
(0)
SSG Rick Miller
Anybody stop to think she might be pregnant? Some other medical reason? Get her checked out by competent medical authority, and if none of the above, do a weigh in and a tape. If she's not overweight, then she has 5 days to get a uniform that fits properly, and on the 6th day, she will be re-inspected. If she still doesn't have a uniform that fits, ask for a reason. No excuses, just a reason. If the reason is bullshit, school of the soldier works wonders with recalcitrant swine.
(1)
(0)
24
24
0
I know the Army way now is counseling. However, that DOES NOT always mean a paper trail. If shes generally squared away and does her job well, then a verbal counseling can stand (it's still an acceptable form of counseling). Have an actual conversation with her, rather than being one of those NCOs that says "hey you f*cked up, so I'm telling you you're wrong and what you're gonna do to fix it." There are a lot of things that can contribute to this type of decision-making (emotional stability, stress, financial hardship, etc). And as for the weight gain, which was undoubtedly her biggest obstacle, in wearing the uniform for inspection, again, this is a moment to open the dialogue, as there are a LOT of factors, especially with females, soldier or otherwise (yes it matters, even in the Army), that can affect fluctuations in weight and body mass. So open the dialogue with her. "Hey Soldier, I've noticed you've gained enough weight that your uniform no longer fits properly. We have regulations about this, and before it becomes too big an issue, I wanna talk to you about it, see if we can sort out what's causing it and work together to try and mitigate it.
Now, all of this being said, she knew a month in advance and SHOULD HAVE had the fortitude to come and talk to you. However having been a soldier that didn't trust their leadership or that the leadership had my best interest at heart, I can understand the reticence to do so. Sometimes, as a leader (and I've learned this now, as a civilian employer) we sometimes have to open that dialogue ourselves and establish the foundation of trust in our subordinates. Remember, trust is earned, but never assured.
All that being said, if she's set a precedent for being a soup sandwich and is typically more f*cked up than a football bat, then yes, counsel her on paper (just as much to CYA as hers) on the proper wear, maintenance and readiness of ALL Army uniforms, and set up a written plan of action of how to address it within a certain timeline. If she fails, CLOSE THE COUNSELLING annotating her failure to comply. If she succeeds, CLOSE THE COUNSELING with her success. But for the love of whatever holy item you see as praiseworthy, CLOSE OUT HER COUNSELINGS. I cannot tell you how much hell got raised in my last unit when it came to light that not ONE SINGLE counseling, for any soldier, had been closed out with remarks on progress.
Now, all of this being said, she knew a month in advance and SHOULD HAVE had the fortitude to come and talk to you. However having been a soldier that didn't trust their leadership or that the leadership had my best interest at heart, I can understand the reticence to do so. Sometimes, as a leader (and I've learned this now, as a civilian employer) we sometimes have to open that dialogue ourselves and establish the foundation of trust in our subordinates. Remember, trust is earned, but never assured.
All that being said, if she's set a precedent for being a soup sandwich and is typically more f*cked up than a football bat, then yes, counsel her on paper (just as much to CYA as hers) on the proper wear, maintenance and readiness of ALL Army uniforms, and set up a written plan of action of how to address it within a certain timeline. If she fails, CLOSE THE COUNSELLING annotating her failure to comply. If she succeeds, CLOSE THE COUNSELING with her success. But for the love of whatever holy item you see as praiseworthy, CLOSE OUT HER COUNSELINGS. I cannot tell you how much hell got raised in my last unit when it came to light that not ONE SINGLE counseling, for any soldier, had been closed out with remarks on progress.
(24)
(0)
SSG Robert Perrotto
SPC (Join to see) - Respectively disagree. Women want to do the same job as men, then the standards cannot be different. If I expect a male crew served weapon member to carry the 240B, Ammo, and spare barrel, along with their basic load, 5 kilometers in rough terrain, to set up a hasty SBF position in 90 minutes from step off from the assembly area, then I will expect a female crew served weapon member to do the same. The physical aspects of Combat arms, especially the infantry, is a priority and mission essential. This is the reality all must face. Speed and stamina along with physical strength, means the difference between life or death on a battlefield. Air support, artillery, armor are all great combat multipliers, but the fact remains only infantry can hold or take ground.
If the Soldier in question is going through hardships, a counseling statement will give them a wakeup call, Counseling does not in any way hinder either the SM or leadership from receiving assistance, or administering assistance, it just lets the Soldier know that there is a right way to handle challenging situations.
If the Soldier in question is going through hardships, a counseling statement will give them a wakeup call, Counseling does not in any way hinder either the SM or leadership from receiving assistance, or administering assistance, it just lets the Soldier know that there is a right way to handle challenging situations.
(2)
(0)
SPC Chris Ison
I am sorry, all of that is sound advice, honestly one of the better responses. But this is not a deficiency of character that needs to be fixed, it is a simple as purchasing a uniform that fits.
All of what you suggested should have happened at the first PT test and weigh in, and if not then the second.
I can only assume that she must have gained enough weight that the uniform doesn't fit, but not enough to have been flagged for height and weight, and she has not failed a PT test, or this would have already been addressed.
I remember in the Guard, My Platoon Sergeant told me, you don't have to just pass the PT test, you have to pass height and weight, which I barely did i was 204, and the curt off was 205. I fixed that issue.
This should never have gotten this far, but the fact that she knew 30 days in advance and did not fix the problem by purchasing a new uniform, to me means she is not taking her own issues seriously. Or she just did not want to spend 500 dollars on a new service uniform.
My money is on the money. I have dealt with female service members, and I have found they have a harder time budgeting money then men, most of the time; Everyone is different but women buy make up, get their nails done, etc. Men tend to buy anew vehicle and then rub it with a diaper cause they can't afford gas.
I always counseled my peers about these issues, sometimes they listened and sometimes they didn't.
All of what you suggested should have happened at the first PT test and weigh in, and if not then the second.
I can only assume that she must have gained enough weight that the uniform doesn't fit, but not enough to have been flagged for height and weight, and she has not failed a PT test, or this would have already been addressed.
I remember in the Guard, My Platoon Sergeant told me, you don't have to just pass the PT test, you have to pass height and weight, which I barely did i was 204, and the curt off was 205. I fixed that issue.
This should never have gotten this far, but the fact that she knew 30 days in advance and did not fix the problem by purchasing a new uniform, to me means she is not taking her own issues seriously. Or she just did not want to spend 500 dollars on a new service uniform.
My money is on the money. I have dealt with female service members, and I have found they have a harder time budgeting money then men, most of the time; Everyone is different but women buy make up, get their nails done, etc. Men tend to buy anew vehicle and then rub it with a diaper cause they can't afford gas.
I always counseled my peers about these issues, sometimes they listened and sometimes they didn't.
(0)
(0)
SSG Robert Perrotto
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff - You misunderstand, what the standards are for women is not the point. The point is the individual soldiers weight, and inability to fit into her uniform because of it. I would counsel a male soldier for the exact same infraction. SPC Italino is saying we should make exceptions based on gender to this type of infraction, I disagree with that line of thinking. As for Combat arms, I've already stated my position regarding it many times - if they can do the job to the same standard as the males, by all means, I would stand by their side in a fox hole.
(0)
(0)
SPC (Join to see)
Am I the only one that noticed the pompous retired 1SG calling anybody else a disgrace to the Army and the NCO Corps, while simultaneously engaging in textbook Conduct Unbecoming? Hypocrisy is hilarious, it truly is.
And to those of you smearing my advice, bear in mind I DID mention that the soldier's performance patterns were a factor, and advised accordingly. If this soldier was a new soldier at the time (to be fair, I would say within the first 18 months of Service), they may not understand the severity of their actions. Hamstringing said Soldier over it will only decrease morale, and dissuade confidence in unit leadership. This isnt the 80s and 90s. You simply cannot be a tyrant in the military anymore. And behaving this way, particularly this arrogant ass of a 1SG, only shows the type of shitbag, unconcerned, dismissive and detached leadership that is considered acceptable. This makes me truly glad that I am out of the Army and never had leadership this horrific (despite the absolute shit leadership I had on numerous occasions).
And to those of you smearing my advice, bear in mind I DID mention that the soldier's performance patterns were a factor, and advised accordingly. If this soldier was a new soldier at the time (to be fair, I would say within the first 18 months of Service), they may not understand the severity of their actions. Hamstringing said Soldier over it will only decrease morale, and dissuade confidence in unit leadership. This isnt the 80s and 90s. You simply cannot be a tyrant in the military anymore. And behaving this way, particularly this arrogant ass of a 1SG, only shows the type of shitbag, unconcerned, dismissive and detached leadership that is considered acceptable. This makes me truly glad that I am out of the Army and never had leadership this horrific (despite the absolute shit leadership I had on numerous occasions).
(0)
(0)
13
13
0
Do you "know" the soldier or is she just someone who falls under your chain? She could be having medical issues, psychological issues or emotional issues (death in the family). It has been my experience that far too often senior NCO's fail there soldiers by losing touch with them and caring more about stats then the soldiers. I once asked a 1sg if he knew how many of his soldiers were employed, in school, un(der)employed, had significant others, children etc. He said no. I then said "I'll bet you can me how many of them are passing apft, height/weight/tape, weapons qual etc" . He said yes. I said "there is the problem with the army today". You don't have to be their friend but you do need to get to know them so that you can spot a serious issue should one arise.
(13)
(0)
Read This Next
-
Ask questionGet expert advice and
tips for your questions. -
Post updatePost pictures, personal updates, plans, or anything you like!
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google