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If we take the time to dress in our finest uniforms, shouldn't the occasion be worthy of the Uniform? Shouldn't the highest level of professionalism be on display?
The reason I ask is because having just attended one; I was disappointed at the lack of etiquette, and military bearing. Yes there is a portion where you can dance, I for one don't think that portion should involve "gettin Low" "Droppin it like its hot" or anything remotely similar.
Do it at the club all you want, but this is the Army, not "the block".
Thoughts?
The reason I ask is because having just attended one; I was disappointed at the lack of etiquette, and military bearing. Yes there is a portion where you can dance, I for one don't think that portion should involve "gettin Low" "Droppin it like its hot" or anything remotely similar.
Do it at the club all you want, but this is the Army, not "the block".
Thoughts?
Standards
Military Ball
Culture
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 18
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The last time I attended a formal I was so excited remembering what my last experience was boy what a complete opposite. Although I did have a good time and enjoy customs and traditions an hour of formal stuff followed by dinner followed by a thirty minute guest speaker had everyone in the room yawning for the door. I say keep the formal parts at the beginning to include guest speaker, retire the colors then bring out the grog and dance music so everyone can relax and cut loose
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Sir, respectfully, your ball sounds boring. Number one, I'm not going anywhere and "dropping it like it's hot"...well not anymore. Two, military balls are one of very few events that actually boost morale.
Regardless of popular belief among leadership, running 4 miles doesn't boost morale the same way it does when your BDE DCO buys your squad a shot. Im not saying to get raunchy but it's ok to lighten up a little :)
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SSgt (Join to see)
SPC David B. Because one day that will be you who is asking the same question and trust me friend you will be that guy. How do I? I was 18 once and could not imagine but 25 let alone 30-40 something. What you learn is you bear it with grace and not make it all about you.
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SPC David Beam
Um, I'm forced to assume this was directed at me. I'm not entirely sure what your point is, but I'd like to point out that I'm almost 30 myself. Fun is fun. As was stated here, it does in fact boost morale. Which is incredibly hard to pull off in the military these days. We don't have the money to do enough training exercises that are fun, and I have still to this day never been to an actually fun mandatory fun day. On the other hand, the balls I have attended are exactly that fun. Being that they aren't manditory, if you remove that factor, you are going to end up with a bunch of e-7+'s and o-3+'s sitting around throwing speeches at each other, because nobody else would come.... and, in and of itself would KILL a glorious military tradition that certain people seem to view with incredibly rose colored eyepro.
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SSgt (Join to see)
Jade is not just a stone. You can be jaded and try to persuade yourself that you are right. And almost 30 = 29. My point is that we think we somehow have something figured out by the time we are 18.
And as I said young man, it begins with you. Others cannot make you do anything. So if you do not like it, do not go. I mean that is an option.
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I agree too Sir, the get down and boogie is for the NCO and Officers club, not a Military Ball or Banquet. I personally been to an Officers Banquet, personally invited by My battalion Commander in Germany as the photographer, I didn't see any unprofessional acts or behaviors, and like wise I been to both Officers and NCO clubs and I saw it but with respect. However the Enlistment club is a whole different story that I don't want to talk about. :)
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LT, I too have noticed a significant loss of military decorum; the apparent inability to adhere to our respective services' traditions & heritages; and the loss of military professionalism. It's not just at formal banquets where we don our finery and look (or should look) our best but likewise at promotional & award ceremonies; at Colors in the morning and Retreat in the evenings; at formation for Pass & Review, and a host of other opportunities to demonstrate who we are as individuals or as an organization. I would offer that the cause is two fold.
First social scientist tells us that the generations from which most of our junior work force comes do not strongly identify with groups (regardless of the groups' social, community, religious or civic purpose - in other words, they are far more concerned with exercising their 'rights' as an individual as opposed to adhering to standards imposed by an organization or a collective). They've been told their whole lives that they are special (everybody gets a trophy!), and there is no way they could do anything wrong. They simply lack strong core values and feel no need to be part of something bigger than themselves. The services are a microcosm of a greater societal decline.
Secondly, for many who are and have been, committed to the higher standards required by our services, they have grown weary of repeatedly telling junior members that the members are not living up to the heritage and traditions as expected. I have seen too many mid career NCOs and officers just overwhelmed at the amount of time they must spend correcting behavioral problems born of poor working stock. It's understandable why leadership goes tired after a career of herding cats. It's hard if not impossible to overcome what people don't get as children.
Lastly, I would add that your observations regarding people not adhering to our cultural norms makes you a standard bearer for doing it right. You are on the front end of your career and will have a long time to influence the institution. Fight the good fight. Demand nothing less than adherence to those things most noble in military service and in the human character.
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LTJG (Join to see)
Robert, having read your posts here and there for the past few months, I am convinced that you and I could have some great conversations over drink or two. I mean this in a good way, in that we are on similar pages of the same book.
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CPT (Join to see)
I feel like the old fart telling people to turn their music down, but seriously, somethings just don't belong in a formal setting. No one saw me trying to square dance. Why? Because it wasn't the place for it. (and I don't know how) But more because it isn't the place for it.
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Sir,
Having been to MANY balls (Marine Corps Balls, Navy Balls, British Balls, New Years Black-Tie events, and many Embassy-hosted diplomatic Black-Tie events) I can tell you that it is the intended audience that determines the level of class and the type of etiquette at these events.
Personally, I very much enjoy putting several rows of polished medals on a mess dress uniform, and providing my wife the opportunity to look and feel like royalty. I enjoy honoring the occasion, shaking hands with dignitaries, and having thought provoking discussion with brilliant people (from within our own military, as well as State Department, and foreign nations as well). Most wealthy and educated professionals and dignitaries seem to share this concept, and enjoy both the comradery and occasion just fine.
There also seems to be a number of people who just want to do shots and wear their uniform in some strange drunken fashion while the DJ drops the bass. Most service members are under the age of 30, so their only experience with a “ball” was likely their high school prom, which is all they can typically compare their expectations to.
We don’t teach or glorify events like these in our society. At least not for the average American. When they are portrayed in movies and on TV, usually they are done so in a boring and un-fun way.
Personally, I think we should have TWO types of events during the year: ONE that we hold with both class and distinction, that honors both the guests in attendance as well as those throughout our rich history; And ONE that is less formal, and lets the average Soldier/Sailor let their hair down and have a more relaxed and fun time.
You will NEVER get MOST service members to attend and enjoy the type of functions that you are alluding to, as those events appeal to a different demographic or cross-section of service personnel. Not to say they are boring in the least, but most people would rather chug a beer and eat a pizza at a party than enjoy a 9-course gala dinner with classical music and meaningful conversation.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Could not agree more Chief. I have planned and set up numerous Dining In, Dining Out, and Command Balls, as well as attending Navy, Marine, etc. The level of decorum is set by leadership and junior troops take their cues from the way seniors behave and act. I have never had the problem of anyone "getting down and dirty" at any of the functions I attended. I attribute this mainly to the leadership of the people involved and the messages they deliver to the troops to go and have a good time while still respecting others.
Dancing at all events (except of course Dining in) has been fun and a good time. Usually the first dance has been led by Senior Personnel and set the standards for all to follow. Music choices also seem to be a factor, depending on band or DJ you pick as well as requested songs.
I also wholeheartedly agree that there really needs to be a different type function for troops as well as senior personnel. Not that all of the juniors will avoid a military ball. Many of our juniors really do want embrace a formal function and have fun there as well as attend a less formal event. There is room for both and leaders need to remember that families love to get together with other military families.
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PO1 Melissa Barber
I would agree that Military Balls should be about customs, traditions, and heritage. As for your idea about a less formal fun event, on the west coast it's called a Christmas party. The Commands take great pride in raising money on top of MWR funds to have spectacular events. Some ships have reserved 2 bequest halls just to provide additional music options to appease the young and mature sailors. Most parties always have a ton of raffle prizes and are considered the best event to attend. The Children's Christmas party normally hosted by the First Class Association and/or the FRG is held on a different weekend.
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Well, from the lower enlisted perspective, why would we bother going if it isn't going to be fun? I'm not going to burn $60 to sit around in my Class As eating mediocre food listening to variations of the same speeches we all have already heard. Its already hard enough to justify spending the money on it.
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1LT (Join to see)
They play a mind-game with you the moment your promotions aren't based on a point system anymore. They talk about how "everybody who wants to be somebody" had better show up or it will reflect poorly on them. Then we're told the same thing about how many of our subordinates show up.
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SPC David Beam
You know, I've heard that, but the fact remains... I don't care. I'm not a lifer. I've got a year and a half left, I've got more time in service and knowledge than most of the e5's out there, but heres the thing. I don't care about getting promoted(as are any number of other ETSers out there) and I certainly don't care about fostering my career and/or my "contacts" to get promoted. In my day and time the ball is exactly what the OP is complaining about. Because otherwise, why would any of us go? I've had amazing stories from all the ones I have gone to, and tr-uuuuuust me, if it was kept "professional" they would have all been cookie cutter non-memorable events that nobody would ever go to again.
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The formal portion of a military ball is the appropriate time (the ONLY appropriate time, in my opinion) to demand strict adherence to all the customs, courtesies, and all the other dog & pony BS that has yet to win us a single war.
As for the dancing, that portion should be removed entirely. Dancing is a form of personal expression. If some up-tight folks are going to get judgmental over someone else's dancing style, then why bother dancing at all?
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Sir, I use to be a command team driver at my last unit and actually had the privileged in helping the command team with the ball. I was taught by my CSM and BN CO that there is always a formal setting at the ball and a certain ceremony aspect to it, and this is to honor the traditions of the military build esprit de corps in the unit and of course everyone gets to show off the ribbons and medals that they have earned. After that you are allowed to take of your coat and dance, socialize ect. but your not suppose to get unprofessional! I've seen pictures from balls where the BN CO is on the dance floor grinding on a lower enlisted soldier. I feel like higher ranking individuals look at a ball as an opportunity to cut loose and act a fool when in all actuality it should not be perceived as such. I believe everyone should relax and have a good time but I have seen some people go a little overboard. On a personal note i agree it should be completely professional, but then think of who would want to go if everyone is up tight the entire time.
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I am extremely fortunate in that every ball and dining out I have been to has been incredible. Last year's statewide ball, our TAG was inducted into the Order of the Minuteman, after 51 years of service he was retiring with many honors. The CSM of the ARNG returned home to Oregon for this event. TAGs opening line was about the 5 Soldiers he lost as a troop commander in Vietnam. Class to the extreme. Nothing untoward happens at the ball, at least here...but it also is not conducted like a dining out/in.
Dining Out 2012 was special as it was the 20th anniversary of the dining out for this unit. There were a lot of old timers there, a general, some other interesting people, and yes, booze. The grog is quite the tradition. There are plenty of uniform corrections, and shenanigans. It keeps Soldiers on their toes, and they LOVE trying to catch their leaders out of uniform or in some other kind of violation. I find dining out to be a huge morale boost, as long as everyone shows up for formation the next day.
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