Posted on Oct 28, 2021
What type of discharge should I expect for refusing the covid vaccine?
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I have no negative marks on my record and have been in the army for over two years.
Discharge
Coronavirus COVID19
ETS/EAS
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 239
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Be glad, be very happy I don't get to make that d vision, or you would be looking at an OTH. AND I am pretty sure there's a ln article in the UCMJ that talks about "failure to follow the lawful orders of the President..." Sad that you choose to throw away two perfectly good years. Excellent use of well reasoned judgment...say NOBODY...EVER
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Other Than Honorable. It's Disobeying a Lawful order Subject to NJP Article 31 of the UCMJ. You've been vaccinated with God knows what, what's different now? Just curious.
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SPC Jeremy A
NONE of those other shots enter your cells, introduce created genetic material (mRNA) that your cells then use to produced a foreign protein which is then released into your bloodstream. NOT A SINGLE ONE. This is an entirely NEW technology, method of action and operates at the genetic manipulation level. That's worth a pause to discuss. I don't believe the oath I took authorizes my chain of command to manipulate me at the genetic level. That's what's different.
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Prior to two of my deployments I had to get Anthrax shots. They were experimental as I remember, and a series of eight shots, of which I only got five. Unless you have a religious or medical reason not to get it, man up and get the shot. When in uniform, we give up many of our personal freedoms for the sake of unit readiness.
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Don't be surprised if the chain of command pushes for a bad conduct discharge.
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SPC Jeremy A
SSG Eric Blue - Well if you're following THIS thread it comes from POTUS and the full chain of command the rest of the way down.
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SSG Eric Blue
SPC Jeremy A - I was being serious. When I was in, there were many instances of official orders coming from as senior as the commander in chief that got "modified" as they went down the chain. And when Joe or Jane responded with those same five words you quoted, they'd get their asses handed to them. And the while the original order from the higher HQs was disobeyed because of its mod, the seniors and leaders didn't face punishment, reprimand, or anything like that (for the most part) for steering their subordinates in the wrong direction. That's why I asked "whose orders" because sources often did not get verified. I know you're probably thinking, "Oh, that part is easy. Everyone should be able to do that." But not everyone does.
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SPC Jeremy A
Well if we're being serious then ANY order that is unethical or unlawful from ANY officer (commissioned or non-commissioned). I praise GOD that I was never put into a situation in my military experience to have to deal with something like this. I also WHOLLY CONCUR with you that everyone should be able to and not everyone does. That's why we have war crimes tribunals and the Judge Advocate General. It's EASY to say "I was just following orders" Challenging orders is a HIGH RISK endeavor and not everyone is willing to do that. So for those that ARE willing to say "I won't engage in this behavior" they're taking a huge risk but if they believe they're right then they will sleep better at night with ramifications than if they had followed the five words with none.
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SSG Eric Blue
SPC Jeremy A - I can't disagree with you on THAT one! Especially on how challenging orders can easily be a "high risk/low reward" situation. But I know that I number of us can sleep at night knowing full well that we did the right thing. Case in point; I was assigned to what used to be the 172nd Stryker Brigade Combat Team out of Fort Wainwright, Alaska. U.S. Army in Alaska (USARAK) policy stated that no groups of troops will conduct PT outdoors when the temperature is -45 or colder for prevention of frostbite. Well my commander said, "F--- that. We're putting on extra socks and our company is conducting this 6-mile roadmarch. I was in charge of the FECC at the time and I said reminded him of what the policy said. He said, "Blue, get you $#!+ because you're leading this roadmarch!" I said, "Sir, I AM NOT risking my health or the health of my troops with this activity." Well, he went on and proceeded to cause over 60% of the company to suffer from a cold-weather injury. He was relieved of command less than a week later and I still have all of my toes.
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What I understand, you should receive an Honorable, not sure if it will have anything added to it, I do remember that once you took the OATH you are obligated to do as are ORDERED to do, I remember getting a slew of VACCINES while in the military, there was NO choice, it was just part of being ready for anything, I don't remember questioning the VACCINES or if I had a choice, and it should be the same today, I don't know why you are being given a choice
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CPO Jack De Merit
SPC Jeremy A - Jeremy, if YOU ARE NOT VACCINATED, you can get the virus and pass it on to anyone else who is not vaccinated. Is that too hard to understand?
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SPC Jeremy A
CPO Jack De Merit - "Furthermore riddle me this Jack. If the vaccine is safe and effective and my 'fellow service members' are vaccinated and I'm not, then how can I possibly give them the virus? Is it not safe and effective?"
In my scenario the other service members are vaccinated, I'm not sure you did all of the required reading... You're suggesting that I can kill vaccinated people as an unvaccinated person? AT MOST I'm going to make them not feel good... unless the vaccine isn't safe AND effective...
In my scenario the other service members are vaccinated, I'm not sure you did all of the required reading... You're suggesting that I can kill vaccinated people as an unvaccinated person? AT MOST I'm going to make them not feel good... unless the vaccine isn't safe AND effective...
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CPO Jack De Merit
You can pass it on to any else in the crew who is just as stupid as you are and not vaccinated.
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SPC Jeremy A
CPO Jack De Merit - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness/why-measure-effectiveness/breakthrough-cases.html
No research or facts or even answering my question... just straight to the downvote and an ad-hominem attack. Yep, that's an E-7 temper tantrum if I ever saw one. You can catch covid (and therefore spread covid) EVEN if you're vaccinated. CDC says so and you so obviously 'follow the science'.
No research or facts or even answering my question... just straight to the downvote and an ad-hominem attack. Yep, that's an E-7 temper tantrum if I ever saw one. You can catch covid (and therefore spread covid) EVEN if you're vaccinated. CDC says so and you so obviously 'follow the science'.
COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.
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I would expect a dishonorable discharge for refusing a direct order. The best you could hope for is a general under less than honorable conditions.
I was in the Navy in the 70's, and it seemed like everytime I got new orders they came with new shots. I don't even remember them telling me what they were giving me. I never even considered there was a choice. When I entered they told me, "You are now US Government property." They made that crystal clear, and you knew that before you enlisted. I don't understand the concept of being in the Navy and refusing any order. They wanted to take care of the whole, so each piece (soldier) is a valuable part to the whole. They don't just give those shots without a lot of research to know what is cost effective to keep each part functioning at peak performance. It's all for the common good.
The mRNA vaccines have been in human testing for over a decade (as a leukemia vaccine) and proven safe in stage three trials at this time. I know a Dr who worked on the clinical trials of the Moderna vaccine and said it had the fewest side effects of any vaccine he's ever tested. And he's been doing drug trials for over 30 years. I certainly believe every member of the services should accept all medical preventative and reconstructive treatment. Remember, this decision will follow you through the rest of your life. I pray you will accept the vaccine, for the good of your unit, for the good of the army, for the good of the community we call the United States. Hopefully you joined to serve your country, taking the shot is a small part of that service. I pray that you would have a peace about following this order.
I was in the Navy in the 70's, and it seemed like everytime I got new orders they came with new shots. I don't even remember them telling me what they were giving me. I never even considered there was a choice. When I entered they told me, "You are now US Government property." They made that crystal clear, and you knew that before you enlisted. I don't understand the concept of being in the Navy and refusing any order. They wanted to take care of the whole, so each piece (soldier) is a valuable part to the whole. They don't just give those shots without a lot of research to know what is cost effective to keep each part functioning at peak performance. It's all for the common good.
The mRNA vaccines have been in human testing for over a decade (as a leukemia vaccine) and proven safe in stage three trials at this time. I know a Dr who worked on the clinical trials of the Moderna vaccine and said it had the fewest side effects of any vaccine he's ever tested. And he's been doing drug trials for over 30 years. I certainly believe every member of the services should accept all medical preventative and reconstructive treatment. Remember, this decision will follow you through the rest of your life. I pray you will accept the vaccine, for the good of your unit, for the good of the army, for the good of the community we call the United States. Hopefully you joined to serve your country, taking the shot is a small part of that service. I pray that you would have a peace about following this order.
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SPC Jeremy A
The first mRNA vaccine clinical trial wasn't until 2015 and the first DRUG that used the lipid delivery method wasn't approved until 2017. TESTING is not FDA authorization for the general public. NONE of those other shots you received from the military enter your cells, introduce created genetic material (mRNA) that your cells then use to produced a foreign protein which is then released into your bloodstream. NOT A SINGLE ONE. This is an entirely NEW technology, method of action and operates at the genetic manipulation level. That's worth a pause to discuss. I don't believe the oath I took authorizes my chain of command to manipulate me at the genetic level. However, ethical and moral dilemmas have been justified by "I was just following orders" and "It's all for the common good." since humanity recognized that solders should have ethics and morals.
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It could be worse. You could be ordered to charge and enemy position in a near suicide mission.
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SFC Tracy Donahoo
As if about 10 days ago, the USAF had 27 airmen that were going to be the first wave of discharges for not getting the vaccine.
If any branch wants to make examples and 'send a message', they probably could use refusing an order or failing to follow orders as grounds for discharge.
As others have suggested, this could be a general discharge. I'm sure they'll tell you as part of the last effort to threaten your compliance. Obviously, this isn't something to be taken lightly.
If any branch wants to make examples and 'send a message', they probably could use refusing an order or failing to follow orders as grounds for discharge.
As others have suggested, this could be a general discharge. I'm sure they'll tell you as part of the last effort to threaten your compliance. Obviously, this isn't something to be taken lightly.
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SPC Jeremy A
SFC Tracy Donahoo - I concur wholeheartedly. Genetically manipulating service members against their will or with the threat of DD is NOT to be taken lightly!
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