Posted on Nov 28, 2016
SPC Human Resources Specalist
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During the time my grandfather served in the Army, there were many Specialist ranks all the way up to E-9. My question is, what was the purpose of having an E-9 SPC (SP9) back when these ranks were in service. I could use a good history lesson!

Thank you,
SPC O'Hara
Posted in these groups: Specialist 5 %28sp5%29  e 5 SP5Specialist 6 %28sp6%29  e 6 SP6Ad11ad86 SPC
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Responses: 98
SPC Byron Skinner
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Sp4 Byron Skinner. Getting rid of the specialists rank was very dumb on the part of the Army and very expensive. Making all E-5's NCO and sending them through the schools and all the other crap a Sgt has to do is crap to some if not many soldiers most likely why the leave the Army after a single enlistment. The Specialists opens up jobs to MOS's like armor where many drivers and gunners were spec 5's, Medics where many of the Medics serving with line units were Spec. 5 or 6, head cooks wet often Spec 5's, Infantry Crew Served Weapons such as mortar and machine-gun held Spec 5 rank. The highest Specialist Rank I saw was I think a Spec 8, it was worn on an EOD Specialist. Spec 7's were not uncommon for Mess Sgts. of a Battalion Consolidated Mess, consolidated Meses were rare nearly all including Regimental HQ Company has their individual Mess facilities and no civilian workers all soldiers…This is something that should be brought back.
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LTC Aviation Combined Arms Operations
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Edited 7 y ago
Many great repsonses. Mine is not unique but is illustrative. Three preople in this story. 1) My dad was an Army helicopter mechanic in the 1960s (including a tour in VietNam as a Huey Crew Chief), he turned down "hard stripes" so he could keep working on helicopters. Less than 30 years later I was a brand new aviation lieutenant; 2) my first platoon sergeant was a great leader, helicopter mechanic, and trainer of helicopter mechanics (I hope I learned alot from him). His replacement was not as well rounded, 3) that E7 could fix helicopters but couldn't teach. One particular time I saw him fixing a helicopter while 3 E4 and an E3 watched. Three years later I met him again on the flight line at Ft Rucker, he was working for the maintenance contractor doing what he did well - fixing helicopters.
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MAJ Richard Cheek
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As I understood it as the army was getting so technical in 1960 (don't laugh) they needed a way to promote specialists as they progressed but not give them leadership responsibility. When I came in 1970 I met my first and only Spec7. In 1975 As a SSG I was given all the Spec6s and 5s while we were in the replacement station.
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SGT Tim Fridley
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The SPC was more of a rate then a rank. It was for Non Combat Arms MOSs. They did not have the same duties as an NCO.
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MAJ John Adams
MAJ John Adams
>1 y
Close, but exactly. When I was active duty, nobody except a few artillerymen were corporals, and seeing SP5 rank in infantry and armor/cav was the norm.
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MAJ John Adams
MAJ John Adams
>1 y
Oops. I meant "not" exactly. Sorry about that.
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SGT Chris Padgett
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1st, you'll notice no CSM in your picture. When I 1st came in, SPC5 and SPC6 was still a thing, but being discontinued.
The reason behind the specialist ranks was due to MOS's. SPC5 and SPC6 didn't really exist with a combat MOS, but was useful for say a mechanic. It was a way for commanders to promote outstanding soldiers without putting them into leadership positions. Personally I think it should have stayed. Look at promotion points and how high they can be for people in support MOS's. If the SPC5 and SPC6 rank was available soldiers could be promoted on merit instead of points.
The downside to the structure, a CPL/E4 outranked a a SPC6. Having said that, I had an SSG who was great at his job, but was chewed up as a leader. His was a case where the specialist ranks would fit nicely.
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SGM Chief Executive Officer (Ceo)
SGM (Join to see)
7 y
Good points, except CPL never 'outranked' a SP6. CPL outranked a SP4; a SSG outranked a SP6. But NCOs only outranked Specialists in the same pay grade.
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
MAJ Ronnie Reams
7 y
SGM (Join to see) - You're thinking of the old Technicians, the ones with a T under their stripes. All Specialists ranked between PFC and Corporal. They were eligible for fatigue details. Many COs exempted those Spec 6s and 7s, but that was up to the CO. When I was a Corporal of the Guard, I had SP4 and SP5 walking posts on Interior Guard duty.
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SFC James Hoag
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As an aviator (67N) I was ultimately promoted to SP5 as that was the authorized grade for a UH-1 crewchief before the Army decided they didn't have enough hard stripe NCOs in 1976 so I was automatically converted to Sgt. I knew several SP6's as they were all Technical Inspectors for our aircraft and they too were auto converted around the same time. The specialist did the technical work without the need for the authority. Our platoon sgt's were the standard SFC hard stripe rank.
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MAJ Hugh Blanchard
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I was a SP5 before making SGT during my enlisted and NCO service. The original higher Specialist ranks were mainly devoted to technical specialties outside of the combat arms. I was a cryptologic voice intercept operator (Russian) 98G when I was promoted to SP5. Later, when I took charge of soldiers in a leadership position, I received SGT's stripes. I cannot recall ever seeing a SP7 or higher...they were pretty rare...
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SPC David Whitney
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I served in the Army Security Agency as a Communication Security Analyst on active duty from 1955-1958 and inactive until 1963, recalled one day and discharged. Like so many of our records in the old ASA many of mine have been fallen down the memory hole. If I recall correctly I was a SPC4 but since I have no DD214 I operate on a DOD form that shows my active duty time and that I was Honorably Discharged but it does not say when. The DOD lists my "Permanent Rank" as "Specialist Third Class" and that is a rank I don't ever remember seeing or hearing of before I saw in on the DOD records form. Anyone else ever hear of the SP3 rating?
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SSG Gerald King
SSG Gerald King
>1 y
I was in the ASA from '65 to '75. Was promoted to SP5 and then when I made E6 I was promoted to SSG. Two other guys made E-6 on the same set of orders. Myself and one other guy were promoted to SSG, the third individual was promoted to SP6. Reason for difference is the SP6 was a analyst and not considered to be in charge of teams etc. Myself and the other man were monitor/operators who were frequently Team Chiefs and were expected to know all parts of the Comsec field including analysis. A team could consist of a SP5 monitor/operator as Team Chief with a SP6 as his analyst.
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PV2 Glen Lewis
PV2 Glen Lewis
7 y
SSG Gerald King - I never heard of SPC3 either. When I was in after PFC- E3 you went to corporal or if you had a specialized MOS Spec4.
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
MAJ Ronnie Reams
7 y
The 1950s brought a lot of changes. In 1951, the pay grade numbering was reversed, with the lowest Enlisted rank being numbered "1" and the highest Enlisted rank being "7". By 1955 (as stated in Army Regulation 615-15, dated 2 July 1954), new grade structures were announced reactivating the specialist rank: Specialist 3rd Class (E-4, or SP3), Specialist 2nd Class (E-5, or SP2), Specialist 1st Class (E-6, or SP1) and Master Specialist (E-7, or MSP). The Specialist insignia was the same smaller and narrower size as the old Goldenlite stripes to differentiate Specialists from Non-Commissioned Officers. Prior to that a PVT was E7. That is why a T CPL was a Tech 5, a T SGT was a Tech 4 and a T SSG was a Tech 3. The Tech 2 was similar to today's SFC with no T, but called a Technical Sergeant.
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LTC Roderic Hewlett
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Designed to recognize technical attainment, but not NCO responsibilities. Helped with the up-or-out philosophy by retaining technically qualified personnel at senior enlisted levels - but not requiring them to be responsible for troops like hard stripe NCOs. Some switched over to hard stripes and some ended up leading support troops.
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SGT Mark Stanford
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I'm assuming your grandfather served in the mid 50s.... I suddenly feel comparatively old. My grandfather served in the Army Air Corps. I joined a little late in the year 2000. (I could have joined in '96.) There was a lot of talk about the SPC rank structure when I was in air defense (14E). I later became a medic 91W/68W. I had a senior NCO that was a 63S who knew a SPC6.
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