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Given that the military is wanting to downsize and save money, what do you think should change in regards to PCS moves? Do you think the current timeline is cost effective? Do you think it would be more cost effective if we went to five years (or another number) on one assignment? Or do you think it is OK the way it is?
I know a lot of personal feelings will be conveyed here but let's try to think of it from a cost benefit perspective.
I know a lot of personal feelings will be conveyed here but let's try to think of it from a cost benefit perspective.
PCS
Duty Stations
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Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 7
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In terms of shear cost for the Military, it is relatively inexpensive to move a service member. For example, I just moved from Seattle, WA to Boston, MA (nearly the furthest you'll ever have to move a Soldier) for an ETS and the Army quoted me approximately $8,000 to move 8,000lbs. So for moves, it would be cost effective to allow relatively frequent moves.
I think there is another cost that is harder to put a handle on. One is organizational stability. How much does it cost the Military in terms of lost productivity when key leaders move on. Another, what is the cost to the retainability of the service member? Some would prefer longer stays, some would prefer to move often to gain valuable experience.
At the end of the day, the Military has a certain value for service member retention and organizational stability and should select a PCS strategy to balance the two.
In my opinion.
I think there is another cost that is harder to put a handle on. One is organizational stability. How much does it cost the Military in terms of lost productivity when key leaders move on. Another, what is the cost to the retainability of the service member? Some would prefer longer stays, some would prefer to move often to gain valuable experience.
At the end of the day, the Military has a certain value for service member retention and organizational stability and should select a PCS strategy to balance the two.
In my opinion.
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COL Vincent Stoneking
In addition to the organizational chaos (50% of officers and 33% of NCOs learning their new jobs all at the same time, permissive TDY hits, etc) every summer, there is the personal/personnel chaos.
Those same people are trying the find a place to live, move in, meet people, figure out where things are, get their kids enrolled in school, have the spouse looking for a new job, and the 1,001 other things that they have to do. Which just reinforces the organizational chaos.
An additional second order effect is the impact this has on RC formations. While they don't PCS as such, the full-time manning (AC and AGR) do - also in the summer. At the same time the AC is. Which is when the RC units traditionally do their annual training. Which rely on AC and AGR support. From people that are moving/learning their new jobs at new locations...
Add to this the third order effects - Does the Solider become more or less likely to stay based on the constant change? (Honestly don't know the answer to this. I don't know that I would care, but I was a Navy brat....)
Those same people are trying the find a place to live, move in, meet people, figure out where things are, get their kids enrolled in school, have the spouse looking for a new job, and the 1,001 other things that they have to do. Which just reinforces the organizational chaos.
An additional second order effect is the impact this has on RC formations. While they don't PCS as such, the full-time manning (AC and AGR) do - also in the summer. At the same time the AC is. Which is when the RC units traditionally do their annual training. Which rely on AC and AGR support. From people that are moving/learning their new jobs at new locations...
Add to this the third order effects - Does the Solider become more or less likely to stay based on the constant change? (Honestly don't know the answer to this. I don't know that I would care, but I was a Navy brat....)
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I believe that the optimal time in a unit should be between three to four years and not longer than five years.
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SPC(P) Mark Newman
For the benefit of the troop, I'd say two to three years to learn the job/place, but not get burnt. For benefit of the Army, maybe each troop would stay 5 years, so you've got experienced people doing the job at all times.
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I would go with 4-5 years with the same unit/post, after that you really start to stagnate and need the change to keep yourself and your chosen career field interesting. On the flip-side, I do know that there are some who would prefer to homestead in one place/unit as was the way it was back in the really "old school" Army of the 1800's early 1900's, nothing wrong for those individuals, but I know that after spending 6 1/2 years at Stewart, even though I split time as a Tanker and as a PLDC Instructor, it was really time to go when I PCS'd in 2006.
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1SG (Join to see)
3 years. The most I ever spent was 3 1/2 because of a Bosnia Deployment but nevertheless it's good to keep it fresh and try new things with diversity in your mos.
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I think every MOS and situation it's different a few years ago there was that big proposal to keep Soldiers at a location for a longer period of time to allow the families to have a sense of formality. I have friends of mine that have spend their entire careers at FT Bragg. The key in my humble opinion is to do those key positions of development Squad leader, PSG etc.. There are installations that have great diversity of units and you could move around comfortably obtaining new skills and diversifying your assignments at least in the Signal corps that's a option for us since all units need our services. However would homesteading be fair to someone stuck in an undesirable assignment not being able to PCS because all available slots are occupied by those who don't PCS. So there needs to be a balance 3 to 4 years is sufficient for me I personally get bored after my second year it is just my personality.
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Great topic SFC Gilley. 'Back in the day' you could expect to be in CONUS for about 2 years max before being on orders to overseas. By the time I retired, this was no longer the case, but then again, the past decade of frequent deployments probably had more to do with that than anything else.
I believe something closer to 5 years for CONUS assignments would be reasonable and would be a great cost savings. Not sure I would lengthen overseas tours though especially given that there are a lot fewer positions overseas than there were 20+ years ago.
"Homesteading" used to be a death nail for career progression and I think that mindset has now shifted. It's not difficult to remain on the same installation and hold a variety of career enhancing positions and that should be the new goal.
I believe something closer to 5 years for CONUS assignments would be reasonable and would be a great cost savings. Not sure I would lengthen overseas tours though especially given that there are a lot fewer positions overseas than there were 20+ years ago.
"Homesteading" used to be a death nail for career progression and I think that mindset has now shifted. It's not difficult to remain on the same installation and hold a variety of career enhancing positions and that should be the new goal.
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1SG (Join to see)
MSG, thanks for the reply. I agree that "homesteading" use to be a bad thing (or at least "they" said it was) but no longer is. I personally spent 13 years in Germany essentially in two different units., However I only had one PCS cost to the Army during that 13 years and that was because they moved our units from Schweinfurt to Grafenwoehr. I worked hard (at least in my mind) to remain competitive and continued to work for those challenging jobs above my pay grade. This helped me stay above my peers and avoid the stigma of the "homesteader" that has grown stagnant and is not benefiting the Army any longer.
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MSG(P) Michael Warrick
MSG Wade Huffman - yes this is a great questions and SFC (P) Richard Gilley you make so great points. In my opinion, I believe that the optimal time in a unit should be between three to four years and not longer than five years.
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I like this post.
2-3 years on station truly is too short a time to keep a SM at one location. It takes about that amount of time to get comfortable in your position and understand the surroundings. Also, it costs about 30-50 thousands to PCS a soldier (not counting training requirements at each post or Overseas PCS's). so if you figure my 10 years for example. I've move 5 times. 5x40,000 = 200000. Thats a lot of money to just move a soldier around the US aaaand thats a lot of Soldiers that we could possibly retain within the Service.
2-3 years on station truly is too short a time to keep a SM at one location. It takes about that amount of time to get comfortable in your position and understand the surroundings. Also, it costs about 30-50 thousands to PCS a soldier (not counting training requirements at each post or Overseas PCS's). so if you figure my 10 years for example. I've move 5 times. 5x40,000 = 200000. Thats a lot of money to just move a soldier around the US aaaand thats a lot of Soldiers that we could possibly retain within the Service.
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SGT (Join to see)
i used to work for ATLAS before i joined. basically govt moves are where moving companies make the most money. the army only reimburses you a percentage of what they would have charged the mover to do it for a DITY move. also, the army does not cover you for the use of a uhaul or something. for the army, it is super cheap just to let you move yourself. plus they dont have to pay for your new stuff if you break it.
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Not sure what optimal is but I was in only one company for my entire Career. 9 1/2 years in the 372nd ICTC at Fort Campbell started as a PV2 medically retired as SSG. I was a 92Y and should have been able to move around but got fenced for deployments 3 times in a row and then denied movement by two CSM's because Commanders "needed me". Got a ARCOM as my retirement award. Said I couldn't get a MSM because I was only a SSG. WTF OVER!!
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