Posted on May 5, 2016
What would you do if you knew a MAJ submitted a fraudulent DA Form 705 APFT & DA Form 5500 Body Composition in a packet?
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Here is a point of reference:
Two female Soldiers >40 years old:
Soldier A - 63” tall 126 lbs. Body Composition Tape: 26% Army Wellness Center Pod: 27%
Soldier B - 64” tall 173 lbs. Body Composition Tape: 25% Army Wellness Center Pod: Refused
Discuss.....
Here is a point of reference:
Two female Soldiers >40 years old:
Soldier A - 63” tall 126 lbs. Body Composition Tape: 26% Army Wellness Center Pod: 27%
Soldier B - 64” tall 173 lbs. Body Composition Tape: 25% Army Wellness Center Pod: Refused
Discuss.....
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 204
I would tell the commander. A commander has the authority to command direct a weigh-in for someone who they suspect of being out of tolerance. It's been a few years since I say a record APFT form but they use to have either the signature of the OIC/NCOIC or person actually doing the counting. That is an integrity problem if someone else is involved. If it is solely the major then his/her integrity is in question and should ask the commander to retake the APFT/weight/BFthen deal with the circumstances. If their is proof all is fraudulent, the commander needs to relieve the major and begin the chapter process. Once someone loses their integrity it cannot be regained.
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MAJ Vance Fleming
CSM (Join to see) - I saw this happen with a company commander and his 1SG. Both were relieved and were out of the military before it was all over.
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CSM (Join to see)
Thank you. It is refreshing to read that integrity violations were dealt with and not ignored.
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Well small potatoes as I see it. Two reasons that support this. 1. BG Sinclair practically forces a subordinate to have sex with him. His punishmen, around $90k in annual retirement. Oh and #2 how about patreus wow was to bust screwing his autobiographer in a war zone to uhh actually win the damn war. He did the old ncaa football coach trick and retired to be the director of the CIA. The Army sells their "values" to parents of recruits and then those values when broken only apply to enlisted mostly the junior enlisted. SFC RETIRED (thank god)!
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CSM (Join to see)
I am not really sure what any of that has to do with this topic, but thank you for sharing. Sexual crimes and sexual misconduct are important issues. I have some other discussions (sexual assault and sexual harassment) you will probably like to comment on. This topic is at the foundation of all our other Vital attributes - Integrity. Without Integrity as our foundation the entire structure crumbles down to the ground. I do love those little purple potatoes, though.
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I'm in a similar situation. I found out and saw the DA Form 705s for three instructors in a school I am in. Not sure exactly who and what to do with this information, but reporting it is definitely my plan of action.
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CSM (Join to see)
Yes you must report it, but please be prepared to protect yourself from the fallout. It is like standing outside in a hail storm, but eventually it passes. The bruises heal. Always let your Core Values lead the way.
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I would recommend minimum of a G.O. Article 15 for False Official Statement and Conduct Non-Becoming, along with processing the MAJ for an Officer Elimination Board.
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CSM (Join to see)
SPC, You have a very good analysis of what to do in this situation. You are the right kind of leader for our future Army.
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SPC LaVerne Hatch
CSM,
As a paralegal I handled a rather large number of office elimination actions over the years. What you are have described, unfortunately, is not all that uncommon. If this had been caught before the Major was a non-probationary office the board would not have been needed, and the packet could have been funneled straight to the Secretary of the Army for quick action and disposition.
I am not sure if your brigade legal office would have someone that is familiar with Officer Elimination Boards, but your main post legal office does, in the Justice Office, will have someone that handles them on an on going basis.
V/R
H.
As a paralegal I handled a rather large number of office elimination actions over the years. What you are have described, unfortunately, is not all that uncommon. If this had been caught before the Major was a non-probationary office the board would not have been needed, and the packet could have been funneled straight to the Secretary of the Army for quick action and disposition.
I am not sure if your brigade legal office would have someone that is familiar with Officer Elimination Boards, but your main post legal office does, in the Justice Office, will have someone that handles them on an on going basis.
V/R
H.
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SPC LaVerne Hatch
CSM,
I started out in the National Guard, then to the Army Reserves and finally to the active duty. I went through an MEB in 2014. I am now working on an additional undergraduate degree in Paralegal Studies and getting ready to attend law school. My time and knowledge does not go to waste, fore, I continue to assist service members with legal questions, and read the Army Regulations quite often. Knowledge is one of the ultimate strengths a soldier can have. Therefore, I continue to educate those that seek the knowledge I possess.
I started out in the National Guard, then to the Army Reserves and finally to the active duty. I went through an MEB in 2014. I am now working on an additional undergraduate degree in Paralegal Studies and getting ready to attend law school. My time and knowledge does not go to waste, fore, I continue to assist service members with legal questions, and read the Army Regulations quite often. Knowledge is one of the ultimate strengths a soldier can have. Therefore, I continue to educate those that seek the knowledge I possess.
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She have to do two APFT a year so if she falsifying documents somebody is helping her that command has no integrity so the major must have something to offer them is the reason she's getting away with it perhaps he's a good administrator not justifying but some people Overlook certain things to keep the command running smooth it's a lot of bad leadership in the military especially on that side lot of buddy buddy situation and I guarantee you that's one of them but it will catch up to her soon as she have to go to a school
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CSM (Join to see)
That is a good point. It makes me wonder how some Soldiers have been doing these integrity violations for so long and allowed to act with impunity. It is unfortunate that others help them, too.
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CSM (Join to see)
If we raise the white flag, then it continues the cycle of breeding more integrity issues and worse. I say yes. I agree - raise that red flag and waive it to show you stand for integrity. Of course, as Leaders we must address these issues and not let them fester. They are not like wine, they do not get better with age.
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Of report that in a heart beat not the first I've heard of this and I sure as hell would report it.
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I cannot believe a field grade officer in our Army would ever do such a thing. After they are more highly educated and much more consummate professionals than we lowly peasant rif raf. Never in my life could I believe for a second that they would place themselves outside the grasp of the policy the set.
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CSM (Join to see)
Leaders set the example with integrity as our foundation. I still believe most people do the right thing. Clearly you are a Soldier that lives the Army Values. Hooah!
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SSG John Mendyka
CSM (Join to see) - I have had the privilege of serving my nation for 20 consecutive years as an army communicator and spectrum manager. I have worked with some in fact most who have had a dedication to our soldiers and standards that are nothing short of legendary. I personally am honored by your compliment. God bless CSM.
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CSM Baldwin I would have personally brought it up the chain of command regardless of my rank. Would I have gotten very far no but if the command realizes that the Soldiers are recognizing a problem that is not being fixed with leadership then maybe though highly unlikely they will enforce the standard before Soldiers take it even further up.
But if nothing is being done at BN or BDE level I would say take it up to the next level above that. Because ultimately this can and will affect Soldiers faith and respect in Senior Leadership to uphold the Army Values which can lead to individuals not respect the commands given to them. They will see it as if MAJ so and so can get away with it then so can I and then everything while spiral down from there.
But if nothing is being done at BN or BDE level I would say take it up to the next level above that. Because ultimately this can and will affect Soldiers faith and respect in Senior Leadership to uphold the Army Values which can lead to individuals not respect the commands given to them. They will see it as if MAJ so and so can get away with it then so can I and then everything while spiral down from there.
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CSM (Join to see)
These integrity violations must always be reported. As leaders, we set the example with integrity as our foundation. It is awesome to see a SPC thinking and trying to solve an issue. Keep with it, good job!
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