Posted on May 5, 2016
What would you do if you knew a MAJ submitted a fraudulent DA Form 705 APFT & DA Form 5500 Body Composition in a packet?
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If while formulating your solution you get stuck, you may submit a Request for Information (RFI). I will not solve it for you, but if you require more information or need some guidance that is fine.
Here is a point of reference:
Two female Soldiers >40 years old:
Soldier A - 63” tall 126 lbs. Body Composition Tape: 26% Army Wellness Center Pod: 27%
Soldier B - 64” tall 173 lbs. Body Composition Tape: 25% Army Wellness Center Pod: Refused
Discuss.....
Here is a point of reference:
Two female Soldiers >40 years old:
Soldier A - 63” tall 126 lbs. Body Composition Tape: 26% Army Wellness Center Pod: 27%
Soldier B - 64” tall 173 lbs. Body Composition Tape: 25% Army Wellness Center Pod: Refused
Discuss.....
Integrity
APFT
Misconduct
Character
What Would You Do
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 204
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Hubby who a retired said who signed it, cause has to be signed by a second person, usually a CSM or Commander. Cause if submitted, they would be just as wrong..
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CSM (Join to see)
Insert Wrench Here. Hypothetically let's say the S3 signed the APFT and BC.. and a S1 NCO did the actual taping with no recorder. Say you have a Soldier state he took the APFT that day and the MAJ was not there. What would you do now?
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CSM (Join to see)
SGT, You cannot really light up.... however yes lead from front. As leaders, we set the example with integrity as our foundation. Without integrity the whole house crumbles down. Good job.
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You've gotta look at the modern structure we deal with in the Army. It isn't just the MAJ....it's the LTC, the CSM, the Commander and the 1SG. If a PVT is out of tolerance a SSG or SFC can stop it in its tracks. Today, that same SSG or SFC who would've been honored for stepping up, is scared of the consequences. With QMP and QSP it's not who's right, it's who's got your back.
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Take her out in front of the next formation and shoot her in the head as an example to everyone in formation. Obviously that isnt going to happen. Unfortunately, despite the fact a procedure is in place to handle situations such as this, the officers of the United States Army no longer possess the values nor the moral fiber to maintain standards of conduct within their own Corps. Its a shame.
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CSM (Join to see)
SFC B, The Soldier is not a horse with a broken leg, so that is out. Yes it is a shame that this happens. So what would be your plan to do something about it?
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CSM (Join to see)
Sir, it is best to move forward through all the smoke, but sometimes you encounter a brick wall that stops the mission. Eventually the smoke clears, and you maneuver around the obstacle and head toward OBJ Accountability.
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CPT Joseph K Murdock
True as what we intend to do does not always happen the way it was planned. If I was a BC I would be furious at an officer like that. So tell me more.
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CSM (Join to see)
CPT Joseph K Murdock - Sir, hypothetically the Soldier is vindictive and files a third complaint this time anonymously (queuing up the sponsors for help). This is strictly for revenge. What are you going to do now?
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Lets take the rank out of this, what would you do, you already have your answer. Now with my BLUF out of the way, if I ever caught an officer filing fraudulent paperwork I would ensure they would get what they have coming to them, one standard, if you can't maintain the basic job requirements to be in the service I say thank you for your time and show you the door.
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CSM (Join to see)
1SG you made me take a deep breath. I am proud of you. Great answer. Leaders must enforce standards and hold Soldiers accountable for their actions no matter it is an officer or enlisted Soldier. Top, I do not really see it as they should get what is coming to them rather let them receive what they earned by their behaviors and actions.
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If I could get copies of the documents, I would anonymously turn them over to the I.G., IF and only IF I had done the same to the Chain of Command to give them an opportunity to rectify the situation.
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CSM (Join to see)
That is a plan. Insert wrench here. hypothetically the Soldier went to the IG and files complaint the CDR was harassing her (does not want to reweigh). What would you do now?
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This was the norm in my unit. We were doing a record APFT. I had to do the 2.5 walk because of injury. My commander waited until everyone left, jogged at the 0.25 mile mark, looked at me, and then turned around. Majority of E6 & up falsified APFT. If or when you report it you become the bad guy. The worst part was that they were chaptering E5 & under left & right for height and weight. You think that's bad when my company deployed an E7 penciled in great scores for many of the people he was sleeping with and made drivers badge for them to earn points. Then had the audacity to have a hard working Soldier's APFT records removed from her file to keep her from making the cut because she wasn't sleeping with him. I became the bad seed because I complained.
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CSM (Join to see)
SGT(P) Gloria Francis,
You are not the bad seed, but quite the opposite. You were doing what is right even if the parties involved were not held accountable. Soldiers with the highest integrity are always Targets from those with the lowest or non-existent integrity. As leaders, we set the example with integrity as our foundation. These behaviors and actions are cancers to our organization and they defeat Readiness. What would you do? What would a reasonable person do?
You are not the bad seed, but quite the opposite. You were doing what is right even if the parties involved were not held accountable. Soldiers with the highest integrity are always Targets from those with the lowest or non-existent integrity. As leaders, we set the example with integrity as our foundation. These behaviors and actions are cancers to our organization and they defeat Readiness. What would you do? What would a reasonable person do?
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