Posted on May 5, 2016
What would you do if you knew a MAJ submitted a fraudulent DA Form 705 APFT & DA Form 5500 Body Composition in a packet?
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Here is a point of reference:
Two female Soldiers >40 years old:
Soldier A - 63” tall 126 lbs. Body Composition Tape: 26% Army Wellness Center Pod: 27%
Soldier B - 64” tall 173 lbs. Body Composition Tape: 25% Army Wellness Center Pod: Refused
Discuss.....
Here is a point of reference:
Two female Soldiers >40 years old:
Soldier A - 63” tall 126 lbs. Body Composition Tape: 26% Army Wellness Center Pod: 27%
Soldier B - 64” tall 173 lbs. Body Composition Tape: 25% Army Wellness Center Pod: Refused
Discuss.....
Integrity
APFT
Misconduct
Character
What Would You Do
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 204
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We had one of these, we the CPTs and LTs in the BN turned her in using the ICE system because our chain of command would not get involved due to fears of being labeled racists/sexists. Meanwhile I had four chapters on my desk for the same issue. I felt as a CO I could not sit by and allow this to happen. She got burned down, but got out on a MEB anyway.
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CPT (Join to see)
RGR CSM, it bypassed the Chain of Command, BN and BDE and went straight to Garriosn and the CG. The IO was the recently changed out MP BN CDR and he was about to retire so he didn't care what feathers he ruffled. This MAJ would run her mouth and actually say things like "They can't do nothing to me, I'm a single black mother, I check too many affirmative action blocks" My Black Female XO took major exception to that as well as other issues aside from the PT Card and HW Card. She tried to get my XO to falsify a BRM card for her as well, she tried to pull the whole "we need to stick together as females thing." My XO didn't buy into that, and she didn't need to either, she scored in the 80% range on the male PT scale and was also qualified Expert with both M9 and M4. She was a top notch officer in terms of leadership ability, and well everything. At any rate, she, my 1SG, myself, to other COs as well as a few of the LTs all submitted a separate ICE complaint on the same day. It was simply to many to ignore. Come to find out that the BN CSM was in on the PT card thing. I guess he wanted to protect his S3? Not really sure what his motivation was. That came out in the investigation as well and he had to retire, well and he was doing a lot of other shady stuff as well. It was crazy, in that BN the CSM, S3 and the BC all got removed with in 6 months.
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Wow, it's not unheard of. It's just a damn shame we have such horrible integrity issues in the Officer Corp.
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"Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment. " Benjamin Franklin
"The right way is not always the popular and easy way. Standing for right when it is unpopular is a true test of moral character." Margaret Chase Smith
"Pissing people off doesn't mean you're doing the right things, but doing the right things will almost inevitably piss people off. " Colin Powell
"The right way is not always the popular and easy way. Standing for right when it is unpopular is a true test of moral character." Margaret Chase Smith
"Pissing people off doesn't mean you're doing the right things, but doing the right things will almost inevitably piss people off. " Colin Powell
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First I would never let someone pick who would grade their APFT or HT/WT. They will pick a battle to do it. I always had my MFT grade Soldiers going for promotion or schools. As a current SSGL at an NCOA I hate sending Soldiers home for failing to meet the standards because their units couldn't be honest with them. I would push it this issue up the chain. If the chain of command is just brushing it under the rug then it needs to go higher. I know my commander (06) told us straight to our face if we are not in compliance or working to get back in compliance we will be dismissed, officers and enlisted. No protected ranks.
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All these statements are true. However how many of you would do the right thing. It is easy to talk the talk what about walking the the walk. The way I see this, any form Da, Sf, Dd are legal forms and submitting them and knowing that they are false, are punishable under the UCMJ (making a false statement), and doing nothing make you no better then the Maj for submitting the documents
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Well most servicemen and women would report it unless they are intraverts - I personally, speak my mind and IDC what anyone else thinks so I would have to report it if I saw it, not if someone told me it happened thru the rumor mill. A lot of he did she did and he said she said everywhere unfortunately so I would not just go by a rumor.
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I seen this shit all the Time in 167th TSC. The STB commander refused to be weighed and taped. Lost all respect for Senior Officers in that unit well every Senior NCO did. This has ramifications all over. Be careful..... When you rage against the machine they can chew you and spit you out.
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CSM (Join to see)
Yes how true. I was like taffy very sticky, and I did not get spit out. I got swallowed and survived the stomach acids, the intestines, then moved on to the colon. Eventually, I came out into the toilet, but since I am a good swimmer I was able to climb out. The sad part is some people do not make it out of the toilet and they get flushed down.
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I'd post photos and plaster them over social media networks just like the way photos were put up for the CSM in Hawaii not too long ago. If people can keep their comments on a professional level, why not try to put pressure on leadership to do something about it? Or, just send it to a few veterans who are out and let them do all the dirty work, since they would have no repercussions. Although there is a social media policy, there is also a policy addressing these concerns. There has to be accountability no matter your rank and social media is a great way to keep people accountable.
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CSM (Join to see)
I know you know I cannot do that. I am not looking to humiliate anyone or violate social media policies. I am bringing to light a serious issue in our formations. It is has been starting the conversation about this secret hiding in the closet. First, it has to be exposed to then find a solution to this problem. I do appreciate you offering a solution. That shows initiative and creative thinking, both are important for leaders.
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Call them out! Tactfully of course. We can't continue to let Soldiers break the rules and then that Soldier makes his way into a position of high military and political power. If they cut corners on their height and weight, what else are they hiding? The real question is, can you prove it and are you willing to? I wonder what the BC would think about what his subordinate officer is doing. I realize it's hard to report somebody on something that seems like it would be so minor because you don't want to feel like a bad person. It makes it especially difficult with the Army about to revamp its entire weight control program because it is believed to be a broken system...but it hasn't changed yet. That Major is clearly choosing to follow the Army Regulations that he chooses to. You just have to ask yourself..."is this Soldier the good leader that they are portraying themselves as. I wish you the best of luck Sergeant Major.
"You Lead From The Front!"
"You Lead From The Front!"
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CSM (Join to see)
You are on point. Some Soldiers have been doing these integrity violations for a while and allowed to act with impunity. It is unfortunate that others help them, too. It has to stop.
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