Posted on May 5, 2016
What would you do if you knew a MAJ submitted a fraudulent DA Form 705 APFT & DA Form 5500 Body Composition in a packet?
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If while formulating your solution you get stuck, you may submit a Request for Information (RFI). I will not solve it for you, but if you require more information or need some guidance that is fine.
Here is a point of reference:
Two female Soldiers >40 years old:
Soldier A - 63” tall 126 lbs. Body Composition Tape: 26% Army Wellness Center Pod: 27%
Soldier B - 64” tall 173 lbs. Body Composition Tape: 25% Army Wellness Center Pod: Refused
Discuss.....
Here is a point of reference:
Two female Soldiers >40 years old:
Soldier A - 63” tall 126 lbs. Body Composition Tape: 26% Army Wellness Center Pod: 27%
Soldier B - 64” tall 173 lbs. Body Composition Tape: 25% Army Wellness Center Pod: Refused
Discuss.....
Integrity
APFT
Misconduct
Character
What Would You Do
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 204
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Maybe this is for higher ranking people to answer, but I would do nothing if I knew. This type of stuff was swept under the rug all the time when I was in the Infantry. Once you get up in the higher ranks and everyone is on board or "on the same page" as we used to say, anyone can get away with anything. However, standards do stand and if you can't comply and stay in shape for a simple PT test well, maybe you shouldn't be in the Army.
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CSM (Join to see)
SGT Brown,
Even though you are a SGT/E-5 you could still find a way to report it with a plan to protect you from any fallout. Thank you for your candid answer. I like where you are going with if a Soldier cannot get into compliance it is time to get out. It is an individual responsibility to keep ourselves Ready and Deployable. Also, you should read about Transformational Leadership. It would be a good fit for you.
Even though you are a SGT/E-5 you could still find a way to report it with a plan to protect you from any fallout. Thank you for your candid answer. I like where you are going with if a Soldier cannot get into compliance it is time to get out. It is an individual responsibility to keep ourselves Ready and Deployable. Also, you should read about Transformational Leadership. It would be a good fit for you.
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SGT Leroy Brown
CSM (Join to see) - I'll take a look at it Sergeant Major. Do you have a link or is it something I can just Google?
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CSM (Join to see)
Yes you can, It is: Transformational Leadership by James MacGregor Burns
I think there are some free exerts or older copies available free. I bought the newest additional on my kindle. Do not get overwhelmed with the wording and the size of the book. Just read a little bit at a time.
I think there are some free exerts or older copies available free. I bought the newest additional on my kindle. Do not get overwhelmed with the wording and the size of the book. Just read a little bit at a time.
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So many people saying "they would do the right thing" ha! Thats funny. Who would actually "DO" the right think when nobodys looking. Be careful with your responses because you never know whos watching!!
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CSM (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - Once a Soldier has filed an IG or a Congressional, they can claim that anything the CDR does is retaliation. Hypothetically, their plan is to just harass the CDR enough, so the CDR will give up and let them move on. Now the Soldier has the power over the CDR especially if the Soldier recruits others to help take down the CDR (mobbing). This is more common than you think. A LTC in the Marines was relieved of duties last year when the Marines conspired together to make false statements (alleged) to ensure she was Relieved of Duty. She is about to retire and can talk about it finally.
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SSG (Join to see)
Wow. That is insane. Soldiers and NCOs have the DA 4856 counseling form that can be used for event oriented counselings. Do Senior Officers have anything?
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CSM (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - Yes officers can use the same counseling form. These "Mobs" are usually headed by a sociopath and/or Bully (does psychological violence). They get "sponsors" (the official name) to help them and they work in tandem. They are expert liars, and have no integrity. They actually enjoy harming the Target any way they can, and they do Bully judo by claiming they are the Target. They get all of their sponsors to get the fake stories together, so they can paint false picture of the Target. If you are interested one of my other discussion is on Workplace Bullying with the link to the #1 Bully Expert in the Country, Dr Namie. I find very few Soldiers that can correctly identify Bullying and/or Mobbing. You have to understand the Bully Judo and key things to look for. I became a SME, since this is a problem in our formations.
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CSM (Join to see)
This is the Marine - Lt. Col. Kate Germano, She is "caring and supportive" correct description, but was mobbed by a group of Marines (alleged) to get her relieved. From my personal observation, she is nothing like the investigation portrayed her as. She may have had an evil twin running around and that could explain it. Otherwise, mobbing.
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Many will say very textbook answers like, "slam the officer", " will not lie ateal or cheat.." or "investigate using IG" But we know damn well they cover for each other and this is swept under the rug. The only time punitive action comes into play is when the enlisted learn of it. But don't let that be an NCO! "Throw the book at em" when it is one of us!
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CSM (Join to see)
SFC B, These integrity violations must always be reported. Anyone that assisted with an integrity violation should be held accountable, too. No one should cover for anyone when their has been integrity violations. So please tell me - What would you do?
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It is clearly an integrity violation, fraudulent. This is an issue for Chain of Command and their only course of action is to flag, deny any slot and start a 15-6. This is simple...the Major has started the process of becoming a civilian.
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CSM (Join to see)
Roger, sir. That is the best COA, and yes the Major has a serious integrity violation that must be addressed. As Leaders we must address these type of cancers in our organization or they will destroy the entire organization.
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I noticed a lot of pencil whipping while I was in. I always though it was funny though because they were the same people putting out policies such as you must have higher than a 270 to be considered for promotion, but they would get out of breath waking from their office to S-1 to yell at someone.
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CSM (Join to see)
SGT Premore, That is a perfect example of what not to be as a Leader. So what would you do in this situation?
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I am a major and have never had the opportunity to change any of those documents, they have been well controlled by NCOs in my unit. So my question is, what the hell is the unit doing that allowed this? The major is wrong however I would be looking at the unit and finding out who is 'asleep at the wheel."
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CSM (Join to see)
Hypothetically say the S3 and one of her S1 NCOs are in on it, too. Then what would you do?
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MAJ Byron Oyler
I would ask the CSM to put the fear of God into the NCOs. One group I am still scared of are the 'brown rounds' and I never mess with a CSM.
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If you are 100% positive that it is all fraudulent, report it. The standard is for everyone not just some.
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CSM (Join to see)
PV2 That is what I am talking about! You formulated a plan to enforce standards and ensure the Soldier was held accountable. Good job. You have a very good analysis of what to do in this situation. You are the right kind of leader for our future Army. So start studying on Transformational Leadership.
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